-=PCTechTalk=- Re: offtopic, remodeling project/home
- From: Gman <gman.pctt@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <pctechtalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 13:48:52 -0400
Cristy,
Assuming the walls are taken down to studs, the ensuing mess cleaned up
before they arrive and that it is a typical sized tub area, they will have
to cut and nail up at least 4 large pieces of cement board or green board.
Tolerances for these are not exactly critical, but they do have to be
somewhat close to meeting the existing drywall outside the tiling area (1/4
inch spacing at most). They also have to cut holes in them for your
plumbing. The roofing nails used to hold up cement board are spaced about
every 4 inches around the perimeter of each board and 6 inches throughout
the field of each board, meaning there will be a LOT of nails used. Just
putting these up takes a full day to accomplish. Working on a two man team
with one cutting, wet-sawing and fetching for the tile setter, I have
typically completed installation of tiles to full tub surround areas in 3-4
days depending on the size of the tiles and how much extras were involved
(fancy 45 degree courses, shelving, capping/bullnose courses, etc.). Of
course, larger tiles move much faster than small ones but are harder to cut,
both wet and dry. The floor tiles will most likely all be set in one day of
their own, but that prevents any further work on the tub area until the
floor tiles have been allowed to set overnight. Then, it will take at least
one day just for grouting. Again, larger tiles allow the work to move
faster than smaller ones.
If you plan to replace the cabinet, you absolutely must do that before
they arrive. If the plan is to go with a pedestal sink, it will not need to
be installed. As long as the drain pipe goes into the wall, they can tile
the entire floor as though there will be no sink, but you will probably need
a plumber to install the sink later to make sure it is level and matches up
to the existing or replacement inlet pipes properly. If you go with a new
cabinet, the tile setter will bring the new tile right up to the cabinet,
leaving about a 1/4 inch which will then be filled with grout before the job
is done. If you try to replace the cabinet after they are done, chances are
very good that the tiles and new cabinet will not look nearly as nice, even
if grout is later used to bridge any gaps. Plus, you may end up with a cab
that is slightly larger than the existing one and tile will have to be
chipped out to make room, spoiling the brand new floor. You should also
remove the toilet yourselves before they arrive and reset it afterwards.
The place I work for charges $75 to do this and it only takes one of us a
total of about 15 minutes of our time. Of course, we never see that money
since the store keeps it. If you do choose to do this yourselves, be sure
to replace the wax ring, bolts and inlet hose to avoid any short term future
issues. If you're uneasy about doing it, ask around to see if a friend has
experience doing it. Many folks do.
Any mold back there will be discovered during the deconstruction of the
existing tiles walls. If it exists, the mold would growing on the same
stuff that's being removed, so there shouldn't be much of a concern about
professional removal or cleanup services. Doing it yourself (or bringing in
one or two other family members to do it) will save you a lot of money, but
there are a few things you'll need to be aware of as the task is tackled.
Cover the drain with masking or duct tape.
Lay an old sheet, blanket or other material in the bottom of the tub before
you begin to protect it from scratches caused by standing on tile shards.
Be sure to wear gloves as you'll be breaking many of the existing tiles in
the process. Eye protection is another good idea for the same reason.
Assuming you have the option to expand the tile coverage at least a 1/2 inch
from where they now end, employ a utility knife with a brand new blade to
cut directly into the existing drywall using the edge of the existing tile
as your guide. If the tiles go all the way to the ceiling, the only
locations that will receive these cuts will be along the side walls. On the
other hand, if the new tiles must cover the exact same area for aesthetic
reasons (i.e. going any further will make the tiles jut out too far from the
outer edge of the tub or any other similar reason), you will need to use a
stiff scraper or putty knife and a hammer to first remove the outermost set
of tiles (usually bullnose capping), being careful to not damage the
underlying drywall for at least a 2 inches under the tiles. Done correctly,
this will leave at least that extra 2 inches of drywall that can then be
sanded and painted before they arrive. They will then tile up to the same
point as the old tiles and no cement board or board tape (cheesecloth) will
show when it's finished. The bottom line here is that they will be looking
to tile up and over the outermost edge of their boards to hide them behind
the tiles and you will need to leave them enough drywall to support this
plus their use of 2 inch board tape to lock the boards together (1 inch will
overlap the joint on the drywall side). Some folks prefer to cut out any
unsightly drywall, even beyond the point where the tile boards will go, and
then add drywall the night after the cement or green boards are installed.
By the next morning, the spackling must already be sanded down near their
work area for them to continue.
Once the outer set of tiles are removed, you should be able to use a hammer
to break up a couple of tiles and break through the underlying material.
That's when the fun begins. The underlying material may be nailed, screwed
&/or glued to the studs, but little of that actually matters. With a couple
of 'break through's', grasp the entire wall and rapidly pull repeatedly to
loosen up the fastener areas. Nails and screw connections through drywall
are easy to break since the drywall will crumble in these areas. You should
then use some longish prybars to assist in breaking the remaining fastener
connections as you go. The fasteners will much more than likely stay
embedded within the studs and will be removed later, so all you're really
after at this point is the release of the wall materials themselves. Expect
the walls to release in chunks (small pieces to up to two ft. squares or
so), especially where you come across drywall seams. It's slow work in the
beginning and becomes rather easy once some of the material is already
removed. There may or may not be insulation behind these boards. Most
inside walls don't contain any, but any walls leading outside should. If
the outside wall(s) insulation is damaged or missing, you'll want to replace
it after the mess is cleaned up and before they arrive.
The entire cleanup procedure will likely take the better part of a workday
to complete, including cleanup. If you have a lot of moisture damage, that
estimate may be tremendously reduced since the walls should break up much
easier than I have described. I wish I could supply you with images to help
illustrate each of these points, but I figure you'll ask if I haven't made
myself perfectly clear on anything.
Finally, no, this was not common practice and the original installer had to
have known better. I chalk it up to a contractor's subcontractor who took
little to no pride in their work. you can be sure about nearly everything
by discussing your situation with the people you meet at the stores you use
for picking out tiling ideas. Just mentioning the drywall damage should
prompt them to insist to you that they only use '...' on every job because
it provides full protection against '...' . You will also see a listing for
the wall material they plan to use on the estimate you get from each store.
Once you've gathered a couple of estimates, ask me about any materials you
don't recognize and I'll explain what they are and how to recognize them
when they come through your door so you can make sure you're getting what
you eventually pay for. :O)
Peace,
G
"The only dumb questions are the ones that are never asked"
----- Original Message -----
From: "cristy" <poppy0206@xxxxxxx>
To: <pctechtalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 9:27 AM
Subject: -=PCTechTalk=- Re: offtopic, remodeling project/home
> 5-7 days? Wow, I did not think that long. Is that due to letting things
> dry inbetween? That is not like all day on each of those days is it?
>
> So if you are contiplating buying a new sink or toilet, is it better to do
> that first and have those installed or does it matter? I am going to have
> to seriously look into the tile as I cant stand to see them like they are
> and I am afraid a mold problem could happen with tiles falling/caving in
> like that. If that is due to moisture anyhow. Will the guys who do the
> job
> check for mold where the old tiles are messed up? How do you guys go
> about
> tearing out all that tile? The tile on the floor is very small like you
> described below and I have found it hard to clean. Her bathrooms are
> downstairs by the way, it is a one story house.
>
> Was this a common practice about 36 years ago or he just did a NO NO? Can
> I
> be sure the next guy won't use the paper covered drywall, should I ask him
> about that. I am going to measure the bathroom this week and go check out
> some tiles at some local places.
>
> thanks
>
>
> Christine
---------------------------------------------------------------
Please remember to trim your replies (including this sentence and everything
below it) and adjust the subject line as necessary.
To unsubscribe or change your email settings:
//www.freelists.org/webpage/pctechtalk
To access our Archives:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PCTechTalk/messages/
//www.freelists.org/archives/pctechtalk/
To contact only the PCTT Mod Squad, write to:
pctechtalk-moderators@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
---------------------------------------------------------------
Other related posts:
