[opendtv] Re: White paper from CEA
- From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 08:16:26 -0400
John Willkie wrote:
> John Willkie, who currently has too much time on his hands, and is
wondering what happened to that Wal-Mart posting of his from yesterday.
A resend is pending.
>
I remember reading at least one post from you about Wal-Mart equipment.
When in doubt about my own posts I usually check
<//www.freelists.org/archives/opendtv/>
- Tom
> really?
>
> You haven't noticed that Europe is a largely mature market, with few new
> players and just one significant manufacturer? I will concede that Australia
> is an interesting case, but it's really simple -- if you're unhappy with your
> returns in Europe, to make the simple modifications necessary to deal with
> Australia's channelization.
>
> Largely what we're dealing with here is the fact that there are few U.S.
> manufacturers of this type of equipment, and that's been going on since GTE's
> Sylvania got out of the picture tube business in 1968. If not before.
>
> Sony lost it's nerve to introduce snazzy products when their betamax dreams
> finaly ended in 1993. The market's last really signifcant advance was
> Trinitron, and other makers innovated only in their marketing. And lies.
>
> And Bob, part of the reason that the chickens are even more scared is the ill
> informed "engineering analyses" of non-engineers. The only thing you really
> have to offer is f,u and d. That just gives the scared more to be scared
> about.
>
> Also, I note that the United States has pretty serious antitrust/restraint of
> trade enforcement wthin it's shores, and one doesn't need to read too far
> into the business pages to encounter Japanese and Korean companies with
> brutal business practices who engage, usually off-shore, to control U.S.
> markets through cartels. RAM prices, motherboards, plasma displays, solvents
> used to make chips and other areas are good examples of just the more recent
> allegations of bad deeds in the consumer electronics field. These types of
> cases are widely suspected, but t's hard to bring antitrust cases due to
> time, manpower and expense involved by the cops, let alone that you need to
> have an insider to even puncture the cartels. I suspect that there are more
> cases of collusion affecting the U.S. market than have been alleger.
>
> If you had the cohones and wherewithal instead of just the voice, you would
> have already started -- if not completed -- the studies on ofdm into ntsc and
> ofdm into NTSC interference. The last time I checked, the nearest neighbors
> to the North (2800 mile border, not including Alaskas) and South (1849 mile
> border) are occupied by countries that support both of these communications
> protocols. Any idea to go to ofdm would have to create the same or less
> interference as is caused today against these foreign operations.
>
> Then, you can start to dea with the myriad domestic interference issues. And,
> the issues are not just broadcasting into broadcasting issues. As Mark
> Schubin has pointed out in his memo concerning Dallas, and there was one case
> in San Diego where patient-monitoring equipment received interference from
> DTV transmitters ny channels removed from the frequencies used by the patient
> monitoring equipment. And, in least at the San Diego case, in which the
> hosptial eventually conceded that they were ultimately at fault, the
> monitoring equipment was used exclusively in the intensive care unit, making
> it a matter of life and death.
>
> To say that stations just have to decrease their power makes the whole matter
> a non-starter. So that just compounds the problem: without basic
> interference studies, the whole matter is a non-starter.
>
> ATSC would not be interested in sponsoring such studies, and the failure of
> those many ofdm/dvb-t advocates among the weeds at CEA just begs the
> question: if they are so favorably disposed towards dvb just why havent they
> completed the studies that they know will be needed?
>
> Their words -- and yours -- are belied by their -- and your -- actions and
> inactions. I'f I've written this type of message on this list once, I've
> done it a dozen times.
>
> The current situation, in my mind, just enables you to not enter -- and
> thereby not fail - in the marketplace.
>
> If Australia is such a good market, why aren't you there? If things are
> going so swimmingly in Europe and Singapore, why aren't you in those markets?
>
>
> If DVB-T is such a great idea in the U.S., why is the Qualcomm MediaFlo
> system not selling like gangbusters? Why are the still in demo mode?
>
> Do you think it might have something to do with the fact that the content
> distributors and makers in the U.S. are -- wisely or not -- somewhere between
> happy to complacent with 8vsb?
>
> Not happy with the content providers? Create your own and learn a few
> lessons.
>
> People flock to interesting, new and unique programming content. It's safe
> to say that many to most of the program offerings on terrestrial, satellite
> and cable these days aren't new, are far from interesting and well below
> unique. So, there's an angle or two here to play.
>
> However, there are still the big dogs and the porch sitters. If the CE folks
> aren't playing well in the market, they're still on the porch. Sounds like a
> good opportunity for the right person with the right idea.
>
> I see the U.S. as being the most competitive media marketplace in the world
> since Silvio Berlusconi started buying up Italian pornsters to create his
> first network.
>
> I see the non-computer CE marketplace being about as competitive as that for
> breakfast cereal. Beyond oats, corn and wheat, just what are the differences
> between the products?
>
> You tend to provide deeply negative assessments of the overall TV gear
> marketplace, in between spouts of euphoria about the prototypes of various CE
> manufacturers who mght just be playing with you.
>
> Do what the NAB and MSTV are attempting, but do it one better. Define the
> actual receiver characteristics you need, down to multipath rejection,
> selectivity and sensitivity and the like, and issue a RFP. You play them;
> don't let them play you.
>
> Or, design and stich together your own system from the ic of others and
> become a fabless fab.
>
> To me, switching modulation just won't do much. Craig's boogeymen will still
> dominate the content marketplace.
>
> More than a decade ago, George Gilder predicted that terrestrial would
> largely be used by phone companies within 20 years, and TV would be delivered
> exclusively by cable and satellite. I doubted the prediction then, but it
> gets harder and harder each year to make the case.
>
> Broadcasting is dying. Long live broadcasting. But, it's just not as
> special these days as it was when I was a child. That will change, or the
> first sentence in this paragraph will prevail and the second sentence will be
> a joke.
>
> John Willkie, who currently has too much time on his hands, and is wondering
> what happened to that Wal-Mart posting of his from yesterday. A resend is
> pending.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Miller <bob@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Oct 29, 2005 6:15 AM
> To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [opendtv] Re: White paper from CEA
>
> Dale Kelly wrote:
>
>
>>Bert wrote:
>>* If I were
>>
>>
>>
>>>a conspiracy theorist, I'd guess the reason they aren't
>>>making it to store shelves quickly is that CE vendors
>>>make more money by building only proprietary boxes for
>>>individual service providers. And the service providers
>>>prefer it that way as well.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>As you likely recall, that's been my opinion for a number of years. I simply
>>remove the term "theory"; CE member actions over the past four to five years
>>presage this outcome.
>>However, it might be instructive to learn what retail ATSC product is
>>available in Korea. Does anyone know?
>>
>>* I don't know why these boxes
>>
>>
>>
>>>haven't been on store shelves for the past two years,
>>>but I know it has nothing to do with RF modulation
>>>schemes.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Five years ago I believe that it could have made a difference.
>>
>>Dale
>>
>>
>
> It would make a MAJOR difference right now, today, if we switched to
> DVB-T IMO. First of all you would have fifty manufacturers chomping on
> the bit to make all kinds of receivers for the US market.
>
> Bob Miller
>
>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
>>Behalf Of Manfredi, Albert E
>>Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 1:27 PM
>>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: [opendtv] Re: White paper from CEA
>>
>>Bob Miller wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Bert says, "When reasonably priced and good recording
>>>devices with integrated ATSC receivers become
>>>available,"
>>>
>>>When? Why not now?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Don't ask me, I ain't the CE guy.
>>
>>I am baffled by the implication, yours and others, that
>>somehow DVB-T would change this state of affairs.
>>
>>ATSC is perfectly capable of being applied to such
>>recording devices, at prices that are competitive with
>>DVB-T. The question of why such products are finding it
>>so difficult to get to store shelves.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>With the tuner mandate/agreement, you'd think such
>>>products would be a slam dunk, wouldn't you? If I were
>>>a conspiracy theorist, I'd guess the reason they aren't
>>>making it to store shelves quickly is that CE vendors
>>>make more money by building only proprietary boxes for
>>>individual service providers. And the service providers
>>>prefer it that way as well.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>And that the American consumer is willing to be led
>>around by the nose by umbillical service providers more
>>than their Euro and Aussie counterparts are.
>>
>>What do you want me to say? I don't know why these boxes
>>haven't been on store shelves for the past two years,
>>but I know it has nothing to do with RF modulation
>>schemes.
>>
>>Bert
>>
>
>
>
>
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