[opendtv] Re: Single-chip HDTV solution powers new DTV products for U.S. ATSC market
- From: "Manfredi, Albert E" <albert.e.manfredi@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:32:05 -0500
Craig Birkmaier wrote:
> Take a look at the MPEG-LA web site Bert.
>
> http://www.mpegla.com
They have a handy dandy summary, which says $2.50 per consumer device,
even if it also records. It was $6.00 before 1 January 2002.
http://www.mpegla.com/m2/m2web_licenseterms.ppt
But, finding it hard to believe that the ATSC demod would cost over $20
in royalties, I found this interesting post from Frank Eory, from 2004.
That's where he guesstimated $5.00 for the 8-VSB demod, but it's also
where he lists other IP that might incur fees in DTV sets.
So again, unless I'm missing something major, I do not see why there
would be a very significant difference between DVB-T and ATSC royalty
payments, unless all those other royalty costs Frank mentions disappear
very soon. If the Chinese article was accurate when it said $23 for an
ATSC receiver, what is the total $ figure applicable to a DVB-T
receiver? Why is that never made to be an issue?
Bert
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[opendtv] Re: Mobile DTV test
Eory Frank wrote:
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:07:05 -0700
Oops. Sent the last one without typing my reply.
Yes, IP licensing costs are becoming an increasing percentage of chip
costs with each new level of integration. One solution is to make the
license a percentage of the ASP (average selling price), rather than a
fixed dollar amount -- if the IP owners can agree to that. I forget the
exact figure, but at one time the MPEG2 royalty for DVD chips was a
fixed dollar amount which would be ludicrous today, considering you can
buy an DVD-player-on-a-chip -- everything but the drive mechanism
itself, for something in the neighborhood of $10-$15 -- probably less,
depending on who you are and what your volumes are. Suppse the IP
royalty was $3/unit. 25-30% of the ASP to the IP owners of "the
standard," while the chipmaker who invests millions to produce and
support the chip (and adds value with his own IP) gets margins in the
single digit percentages? That business model doesn't fly. That lead to
things like we see in China, where they are developing thier own
standards and their own IP, for the simple reason that the cost of
licensing the "standard" IP is too prohibitive.
Now fast forward a few years into the future, when virtually every TV
set sold in the U.S. contains an ATSC receiver/decoder, MPEG2 video
decoder, Dolby audio decoder, NTSC decoder, graphics engine,
microprocessor, video scaling engine, etc. Now imagine that today's $200
TV sets will sell for $250 at retail (in equivalent 2004 dollars). The
WILL sell for that small a premium, or they won't sell at all. Now back
out the retail markup, the TV mfr markup and the chipmaker's markup.
What do you think those chips will be selling for in 2007? My guess is
around $10. How much of that $10 can possibly (without incurring a loss)
be given to the large pool of IP owners? A few pennies to each of them?
I remember reading once that Zenith/LGE was hoping to get $5/unit for
the 8-VSB patents. How much will that royalty really turn out to be when
8-VSB is a small fraction of the chip area on a $10 chip?
Tom brings up a valid point -- if the licensing cost of a particular IP
block is too prohibitive, it will not be integrated. I would add the
following corollary: whatever is not integrated will not be included in
the product, except for those things that cannot be integrated for
technical reasons (like maybe RF tuners). Regardless of mandates, etc.,
the end product will be made affordable. If there are one or two IP
blocks that drive the cost through the roof, they will either find a
niche market or they will disappear entirely.
-- Frank
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