Some very wise words, Raymond,very much in line with my own current thinking.
Yours in Christ,
Rick
Rev Rick Ormrod
Co-Minister of the Oswaldtwistle and Accrington Methodist Churches
West Pennine Moors Methodist Circuit
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On 25 Jun 2021, at 10:45, raygarfoot (Redacted sender "raygarfoot" for DMARC)
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
After 10 years of retirement, I now realise what is wrong with the church and
why it is so hung up on sexuality and gender issues. Jesus' religion was one
of compassion, but from its earliest years the church has been infected by
patriarchal attitudes within society as a whole which go back to the Bronze
Age. These are characterised by a legalistic approach, the tendency to
identify and demonise outsiders who do not belong to the male club, whether
they be women or minorities, and to turn to violence and war as a means of
enforcing change. I don't blame St Paul, because he encouraged women leaders
in the church and I believe his writings have been tampered with by later
hands. We should be careful how we interpret the Old Testament because it
goes back to the warrior societies of the Bronze and Iron Ages throughout the
Middle East and beyond, and reveals the conflict between a priest-ridden
tribal religion and democratic universalism.
We have a big job to do in the church to refocus on compassion and
spirituality, and end all forms of discrimination. This must include a new
appreciation of the role of men in an enlightened world order, and how to
promote a religion which is gender neutral or androgynous, egalitarian and
compassionate.
Best wishes.
Raymond Garfoot.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Barnett <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: methmins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 9:00
Subject: [methmins] Re: The Runaway Train
I wasn't attempting to manufacture any kind of confection with my earlier
postings, nor did I have in mind ultra-conservatives whose minds will never
be changed or even move on the topic of same-sex marriage. I was more
concerned for the folk who make up the bulk of our congregations who in their
lifetimes have seen mainstream society do an about-face in its attitudes to
homosexuality, which, for the record, I wholeheartedly welcome. Things have
moved rapidly in recent years; we were just getting our heads round civil
partnerships when full marriage was made legally possible. Perhaps GILUU is
the best approach; I wouldn't want to argue with anything it says, and simply
hope that in the days to come it will be presented in as gentle a pastoral
way to those of our folk who are still struggling with it.
Incidentally, I haven't read The Runaway Train, although I haven't binned it
yet. The title was enough to indicate to me where it was coming from, and
it's well down my list of reading priorities.
John Barnett
On 24 June 2021 at 19:30 Rob Weir <RobWeir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Tom wrote:
GiLUU *is* the middle way – it allows those who in all good conscience hold
a conservative view to continue holding that view, it makes no requirement
of Church Councils to permit same-sex marriages to occur in property they
are the Managing Trustees of if they do not wish to, it explicitly
acknowledges that we are not of one mind on this matter.
Amen to that! We've been engaging in making some good old Methodist Fudge,
not necessarily a bad thing in my view, but to strain a Biblical metaphor
well beyond breaking point some are telling us that we need to now make
fudge without sugar. GILUU is about saying "all are welcome" - that it's
possible to disagree and yet remain in fellowship; and yet for all the
compromises that means, and I think Dignity and Worth have shown much grace
on this issue, there are others who felt that even the Derby Resolutions
were dangerous backsliding and will never accept anything less than "Not
ever" on this issue. Instead, I have seen them shout down and refuse to
listen even to the likes of Paui Smith when he suggests that it is indeed
possible for people to earnestly study the scriptures and come out with
different answers... And yet GILUU doesn't say to those opposed to Same-sex
relationships "You are not welcome"; it says "how can we remain in
fellowship with one another". If the answer from some is "By you changing
your views and agreeing with us", then we can't go with that - we lose
people from the other end who have been waiting faithfully, in many cases
for years, for a sign that the church may be ready to fully welcome and
affirm them. In some ways, given how we have treated many of those who are
LGBTQI+, the amazing thing is that they are still here, part of our
fellowship, at all...
God Bless
Rob
--
Rev. Rob Weir
Cheshire South Methodist Circuit
St. Johns Whitchurch, Tallarn Green and Brown Knowl Methodist Churches
