[macvoiceover] Re: Programming with VO
- From: Bryan Smart <bryansmart@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 14:11:00 -0500
Hi Sean.
The method that you're talking about, both in VB6, and in VS.Net requires Jaws
scripts. When you press Jaws commands, Jaws moves the controls on the form. In
some cases, Jaws has to talk directly to the IDE to make those changes. You
wouldn't need to talk to the IDE to move a control with the mouse, but knowing
about overlap and other logical relationships requires a higher level of info
then looking at the raw screen contents with a screen reader.
I've looked at the Applescript support for Interface Builder, and Apple doesn't
make it possible to manipulate the designer surface through Applescript. As
VoiceOver doesn't have an off screen model, either, this really complicates
things. I'm not saying that it couldn't be accomplished to some degree, just
that it is very slow.
When I used to program for Windows in C++, back in the Visual Studio 6 days,
I'd type in the info for a control in a resource script. The resource script
was processed in to the data structures that were used to instantiate the user
interface at run-time. Working this way, you can type in exact coordinates for
positions and sizes. With careful calculation, you can account for the size of
controls, so that you can be sure that they don't overlap. In the past, I also
used resource compilers when programming for the user interface of the old Mac
OS 9 and the Apple IIgs. Actually, if Apple's XIB file format was more human
readable than it is, I probably would have continued that trend when starting
on OS X.
I'm glad that I didn't, though. In that method, you spend lots of time
carefully calculating positions and sizes. Then, when you finish, you must get
someone sighted to verify your work, since a screen reader won't let you know
if many visual things are wrong. That's hard enough. However, if you later
decide that you need to add another button to a toolbar, or change the window
in some other way, you must recalculate most all of those coordinates again. It
is a huge effort, and very prone to errors.
The RenaissanceX way is different. I might have a block of code that is a
toolbar, for example. It might contain 5 buttons. The buttons will not only be
automatically sized to contain the text of the labels on them, but all of the
buttons will be the size of the largest button. That is to say, they all end up
being the same size, which is the size that is required to accommodate the
largest button's caption. They're also automatically spaced evenly along the
toolbar. If I later decide to add another button, I simply add it in the
toolbar block, and the button sizing and spacing automatically adjusts so that
it fits. I don't need to recalculate anything, or have a sighted person check
up on me when I make a UI change. The computer is doing the calculating, which
means there is a much lower chance of a problem.
Anyway, I don't think that I'd prefer to use Interface Builder now, even if
Apple fixed it. It might be nice for tweaking interfaces that others have
built, but, if I'm working by myself, the RenaissanceX method is a better way
for me, as a blind dev, to create Mac user interfaces.
Bryan
-----Original Message-----
From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:24 AM
To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Programming with VO
HI Brian and all.
Brian, Thanks for the detailed explaination.
I assume Mac uses x and y pixcel coordinates positioning for objects on the
screen. I am going to explain a possible way to make any GUI IDe to work and
give you the necessary feedback to identify where objects are located on the
form or what ever you want to call it. To explain the concept I am referring
too:
Main app window starts at the app top left hand corner starts at 0/0. the
Bottom right hand corner ends at 600/800. I have used the standard 600 by
800 pixcel screen. If I have mix the maximum size around for give me. But you
get the idea. The OS knows the application window size now.
Any object contained within the App window only knows the dementions of the app
window. So if an object top left hand corner is placed at 10/10. the bottom
right hand corner is placed at 100/100. So your object is 10 pixcels away from
the app border. Likewise applies to the bottom right hand corner.
Also you can quickly work out the size of the object. Any objects that are
placed on top or over the object can also be worked out with not to much
trouble.
As you move around the form, VO could inform you of the relative pixcel x/y
position. If the object you are placing on to the form covers another object.
It would not be that difficult to identify if it is at the top left, bottom
left, top right or bottom right corner. Over the top of the object completely.
On the top, bottom, left or right borders.
I have performed exactly what I have described under the windows environment
using Jaws for Windows and VB6. Yes, I am steeling ideas from windows. but this
works. There are floors of course. But you can get a basic window design
completed. Then someone with sight can polish the layout if required.
I have heard of totally blind people laying out forms without requiring anyone
to modify it.
Sean
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