[lit-ideas] Re: small addendum to Matrix as philosophy
- From: "Veronica Caley" <vcaley@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 09:42:01 -0500
Donal:So perhaps this is not an example of hypocrisy from a 'literalist'
because
not an example of 'literal' interpretation at all, as judged by the
justification for this interpretation - 'Christians don't drink'.
Veronica: My point never had to do with hypocrisy. It had to do with the
emotional need of the believer to pick, choose, twist and turn religious
writing until it is first emotionally comfortable and then suitable to the
point of view expressed.
Donal:Good Christians
don't drink alcohol? What about Jesus and the Twelve Apostles? If this is
said to beg the question, what about so-called 'altar wine', which contains
alcohol on a simple scientific test? Or beers brewed by Christian monks,
Veronica: According to the views of the young person in question, Jesus did
not drink wine nor did the Apostles. They drank grape juice. The alcohol
content of Eucharist wine is explained by the fact that they are the wrong
kind of Christian. That is, not right thinking Christians. Surely you are
aware of this type of thinking. It seems to exist in most religions.
Christian monks who produce alcoholic beverages are Catholic. My young man
was a Protestant, of which we have hundreds of varieties here. Re the Cana
wedding, Jesus' action would still be a miracle if he turned water into
grape juice. So my young man was still taking the event as a miracle.
Veronica
> [Original Message]
> From: Donal McEvoy <donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 12/1/2004 6:20:16 AM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: small addendum to Matrix as philosophy
>
> --- Veronica Caley <vcaley@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Donal:
> > "In fact how is a literal interpretation of the Bible or Koran even
> > possible,
> > literally speaking of course?"
> >
> > It's very easy. See below.
> >
> > Veronica, teaching comparative religions, is talking about the part of
the
> > New Testament story of Jesus turning water into wine at Cana, where a
> > wedding took place and the guests ran out of wine.
> >
> > Student: Jesus didn't do that. He changed the water into grape juice.
> >
> > Veronica asks student how he knows this and student says, it's a
> > mistranslation, good Christians don't drink alcohol.
> >
> > This is called cafeteria Biblical interpretation. What you want to take
> > literally you do, such as homosexuals being an abomination. What you
don't
> > want to take literally, you don't.
> >
> > Cafeteria Christianity is similar. It might be that divorce is bad,
child
> > abuse is bad, disobeying one's husband is bad, etc., etc. But, but, but,
> > this case, my case, is different.
> >
> > Veronica
>
> I take this post as showing that so-called 'literalists' are often highly
> selective in what they chose to interpret 'literally'. But there is also a
> broader point of offering a consistent and comprehensive test of what is
> 'literal' an interpretation as opposed to a 'non-literal' [eg. purposive]
> interpretation. Can this be done? The story leaves it unclear.
>
> In this context I note that the cafeterian did not explicitly claim to be
> offering a literal interpretation as opposed to a purposive interpretation
> according to which perhaps, if one of the purposes of Christianity is to
> oppose alcohol consumption, it suits Christian purposes to interpret
apparent
> references to alcohol as referring to non-alcoholic beverages from the
same
> grape or grain.
>
> So perhaps this is not an example of hypocrisy from a 'literalist' because
> not not an example of 'literal' interpretation at all, as judged by the
> justification for this interpretation - 'Christians don't drink'.
>
> There are ways to challenge this purposive interpretation. Good Christians
> don't drink alcohol? What about Jesus and the Twelve Apostles? If this is
> said to beg the question, what about so-called 'altar wine', which
contains
> alcohol on a simple scientific test? Or beers brewed by Christian monks,
> which can also be tested for the alcohol content? And insofar as, at the
> Feast of Canaan, the party-goers commented that it was striking that they
> left the best drink to last, is the 'cafeterian' really claiming that they
> were all bowled over by a late serving of great grape juice?
>
> These challenges may be rebuffed of course, but surely unpersuasively.
>
> As well as these grave matters of exegesis there is the more radical
question
> of whether Christ's actions in just once turning water into wine is any
more
> miraculous than others' seeming ability to reverse the process again and
> again at will.
>
> Donal
>
>
>
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