[lit-ideas] Re: Willie Pete, well, okay, a little bit

  • From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 10:26:19 -0500

This is a good point.  Sometimes comparisons to Hitler are legitimate as
even Godwin admits.  In this case, though, it seems a comparison to Saddam
is more apt.  Saddam patterned himself on Stalin; literally, Stalin was his
model.  (Al Qaeda today also uses the old USSR spy "handbooks" and
techniques.)  Saddam broke his son's arm in the hospital after his son had
his stomach pumped for trying to commit suicide.  It's also thought that
Saddam had his older son mugged and viciously beaten so he walked with a
permanent limp, something shameful to the Iraqis.  

Saddam isn't a nice man, nobody is saying he is.  Based on our recent
exchange, I think Eric is arguing less that Saddam was a monster than that
the Americans are a species apart and would never hurt anybody if they
could help it.  I think ideally Eric would use halos instead of helmets if
he were king.  Nobody will convince him otherwise, certainly not the likes
of Lynndie England.  The most recent Newsweek did their cover story on
torture.  Essentially they said torture is ineffective, and they (I almost
gagged) called Lynndie the "unfortunate" Lynndie England, meaning that she
was just a fall person for torture that's sanctioned by higher ups, and the
unfortunates below just didn't know what to do.  I imagine that bright
smile of hers was forced.  If she could do it so joyously, what aren't the
guys capable of?  American leadership is fighting like hell to act like
Saddam.  The system so far isn't letting them, thanks mostly to McCain. 

Andy Amago

> [Original Message]
> From: Judy Evans <judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 11/16/2005 9:15:04 AM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Willie Pete, well, okay, a little bit
> Wednesday, November 16, 2005, 1:46:08 PM, Eric Yost wrote:
> EY> Judy: You mean if someone's going to commit a war crime against 
> EY> you, you commit a war crime if you force people to act as human 
> EY> shields in the knowledge that the enemy will attack despite that?
> EY> Eric: Your question doesn't make any sense.
> I suggest it does make sense in the context of your post/s.
> But I suggest instead a new Godwin's Law
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
>  substituting "Saddam" for "Nazis"/"Hitler" as your tactic here is to
>  counter an allegation against the US(/UK) by yammering "Saddam did
>  X", and my "we're supposed to be better, and not just slightly
>  better" has failed to persuade you that that is not appropriate.
> EY>  Saddam used this 
> EY> strategy in the Iran-Iraq War and also in Gulf War I.
> EY> In both cases, Saddam used raw conscripts as strategic human 
> EY> shields,
> I am aware of their use in Gulf War I.  They were weak, ragged,
> starving.  Others may wish to query "human shield"; I wanted a cite
> for your "(children, the elderly)".  Please supply a cite for elderly
> and child conscripts.
> Wales? Wales is, as part of the UK, subject to the ICC.
> -- 
> Judy Evans, Cardiff, UK
>                            mailto:judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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