> This isn't really the question; which is - if x or y > does collapse, for > reasons unrelated to a war, does that mean there was > no war? I suggest "not > necessarily" in the case of either a conventional > 'hot' or an entirely 'cold' > war. > My point exactly. > Lost as an eskimo in a jungle with this. > I was trying to be funny, with the usual concequences. > For the record, it would seem Andreas is right that > Soviet collapse had much > to do with corruption and fiscal mismanagment. That > said, it might also be > the case that the arms race forced their hand, so > that the Soviets realised > they could not 'win' or sustain themselves > militarily. Instead, they > eventually saw that the only way forward was to > allow the country to be taken > over by gangsters. I'd argue following Hayek, of all the people, that Cold War prolonged the Soviet Union. Hayek, in Road to Serfdom, argued that while central planning may be effective at times of war because there is a clear collective goal, but this is an exceptional situation. Who needs input from the market when what is need tanks, missiles and fighter plains? The Soviets had no problems producing great weapons. Cars, appliances, housing, food, etc. were another matter. Also, we should not discount the utility of having a common enemy in control of population. As an aside, Finnish and other European researches, after going through the Soviet archives, are reporting that the Soviet stance that their doctrine was purely defencive towards NATO appears sincere in retrospective. That is post-WWII they had no intentions of invading Western Europe. I really do not have the expertice to comment on this, but I wonder why American writers tend to take it as given that the Soviets intented to expand by millitary force? Cheers, Teemu Helsinki, Finland __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html