[lit-ideas] Re: One of the better fatwa's
- From: "Judith Evans" <judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 22:11:01 +0100
So you concede they have not filed suit. Nor have they even threatened, in
this instance, a suit
against Spencer. They have -- their lawyer has -- sent the letter I quoted
(text from littlegreenfootballs).
They've asked/told YAF to call off the panel or 'else take steps to ensure
that false
and defamatory statements are not disseminated at that session'. I call
that an implied threat of legal
action against YAF, I have said it has a chilling effect on free speech, I
have pointed to its
very Western/capitalist character.
> Is what is occurring here a law suit?
No.
Is it, as you suggest, a fatwa? (I think the answer's obvious.)
>CAIR is using legal threats to extort groups who ask Robert to speak at
their gatherings and >tell the truth about Islamic Jihad. You can view the
letter by following this link
presumably this is the letter -- copied at littlegreenfootballs -- from
which
I quoted, and from which I have quoted again above, and on which I have now
commented
twice. *A letter to YAF*.
>That's the sort of thing that occurred to Communists and Communists
sympathizers in >Hollywood at one time. Threats were issued and actors,
directors, editors, etc, couldn't >work. Back then, however, it wasn't
lawyers who issued the threats
Too bloody right it wasn't, it was the Senate and Huac. (Later came the
purge of
homosexuals, earlier, the US government prosecuted Communists, using the
Smith Act.)
******
Yes, I read the lgf piece. I've said what I think and I stand by that. I
am not going to say it again.
LH> didn't find anything in Little Green Footballs about the Fatwa; but if
one were too actually >look for the FATWA, one would find,
>http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/685
one would find no fatwa
>http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/006547.php
no fatwa
>http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/006451.php
no fatwa
>http://jihadwatch.org/archives/006580.php
no fatwa
NO FATWA.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:46 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: One of the better fatwa's
I wrote, "They've filed a lawsuit against him: "A powerful Washington, D.C.
law firm told YAF that Robert was, in essence, a hate-filled liar and that
CAIR had ordered the law firm "to purse every available and appropriate
legal remedy to redress any false and defamatory statements that made" at
the conference." [sic] Judy of course found out that I didn't have it
quite right and in her inimitable fashion pounced. Is what is occurring
here a law suit? I thought the language implied one, but as I found out by
reading the attendant site one goes to to contribute money:
"The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) - whose very founders have
been arrested in connection with terrorist activities - has decided to
silence once and for all its harshest and bravest critic: the Freedom
Center's Robert Spencer.
"CAIR is using legal threats to extort groups who ask Robert to speak at
their gatherings and tell the truth about Islamic Jihad. You can view the
letter by following this link.
"To help Robert, we are creating a special Jihad Watch Defense Fund to
counter these threats. Your contribution of $35, $50, $100, $200, $500 or
more right now will help us raise the $250,000 we need to send the message
that we are not intimidated and to keep Robert and the Jihad Watch exposing
groups like CAIR who mask themselves as friends of our country."
That's the sort of thing that occurred to Communists and Communists
sympathizers in Hollywood at one time. Threats were issued and actors,
directors, editors, etc, couldn't work. Back then, however, it wasn't
lawyers who issued the threats. CAIR seems better funded and better
organized if they can afford the "general counsel for the Democratic
National Committee."
Now as to the FATWA which was my primary interest, I saw nothing in what I
read to indicate that it was CAIR who issued it. Spencer has lots of
Islamist and Jihadist enemies. I don't think CAIR issues fatwas. The
letter doesn't say who issued it.
Let us now turn to Judy's source, Little Green Footballs.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=26493&only&rss
In this article we find nothing about fatwas but that "Hot Air has the
details on CAIR’s latest attempt to force Americans to submit to their
radical Islamic agenda, as they threaten the Young America’s Foundation with
legal action if they allow an event featuring Robert Spencer to take place."
Further down we learn that YAF's response to CAIR was “CAIR can go to Hell
and they can take their 72 virgins with them.” My, my. I can see why
Spencer might need some money if that's going to be his attitude.
Note also, "The author of the legal threats above is apparently also the
general counsel for the Democratic National Committee." My, my, my! What
an outrage, don't you think, Judy?
I didn't find anything in Little Green Footballs about the Fatwa; but if one
were too actually look for the FATWA, one would find,
http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/685
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/006547.php and
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/006451.php and
http://jihadwatch.org/archives/006580.php
Lawrence
------------Original Message------------
From: "Judith Evans" <judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, Aug-8-2007 12:40 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: One of the better fatwa's
Lawrence
LH>offense (according to the Islamists) was that Spencer argued
LH> that Islam isn't tolerant, and isn't a religion of peace. The Islamists
LH> responded by the fatwa ""May Allah rip out his spine from his back
LH>and split his brains in two, and then put them both back, and then do it
LH>over and over"
this is A LIE. CAIR has not even brought -- as you alleged they had -- a
lawsuit. (My information's from littlegreenfootballs -- or similar place --
I googled to try to find the truth about this, my previous post said what
they
said, copying from a Xerox of a letter they had on their site.) They got a
lawyer
to write a letter to YAF telling them -- in effect -- either to call off
the panel or rid if of defamatory content. Now of course such
letters have a chilling effect on free speech. But only a raving loon
would pretend a) that this kind of behaviour is anything other than
rabidly 'Western/capitalist', b) that it is -- or even amounts to --
a fatwa.
(OK not only a raving loon, also, someone extraordinarily dishonest.)
RETRACT.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 8:29 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: One of the better fatwa's
Mike
Well, the point I thought was obvious, namely that the Jihadists aren't able
to make the logical connection; they can't think logically -- or they don't
give a rat's ass about logic. The offense (according to the Islamists) was
that Spencer argued that Islam isn't tolerant, and isn't a religion of
peace. The Islamists responded by the fatwa ""May Allah rip out his spine
from his back and split his brains in two, and then put them both back, and
then do it over and over" which demonstrates Spencer's point. Such a Fatwa
is neither tolerant (they don't want Spencer to write any more such books)
and isn't peaceful. I find this amusing. My point is that it is funny.
This is one of the funnier sequences moving from the offense (Spencer's
books and articles) to the response (which proves the point of Spencer's
books and articles).
If I have offended your Leftist sympathies for the Jihadists and Islamists,
feel free to send me your fatwa.
Lawrence
------------Original Message------------
From: "Mike Geary" <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, Aug-8-2007 12:14 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: One of the better fatwa's
What's your point, Lawrence?
Mike Geary
Memphis
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Helm
To: Lit-Ideas
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 11:31 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] One of the better fatwa's
One of the most active anti-Islamists I've run across is Robert Spencer. He
wrote such books as The Myth of Islamic Tolerance: How Islamic Law Treats
Non-Muslims, Religion of Peace?; Why Christianity is and Islam isn't, The
Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades), and The Truth about
Muhammad: Founder of the World's Most Intolerant Religion.
Anyway, the Islamists have had enough of him. They've filed a lawsuit
against him: "A powerful Washington, D.C. law firm told YAF that Robert
was, in essence, a hate-filled liar and that CAIR had ordered the law firm
"to purse every available and appropriate legal remedy to redress any false
and defamatory statements that made" at the conference." [sic]
And I suppose to distance themselves from the hate-filled Spencer, they've
issued a fatwa: "May Allah rip out his spine from his back and split his
brains in two, and then put them both back, and then do it over and over."
You've got to love their thought processes: You say we aren't peaceful and
tolerant? You can't get away with that: May Allay rip out your spine from
your back and split your brains in two, and then put them back, and then do
it over and over. You've got to love it.
Lawrence
ps: Where did I get this information? I was sent a letter asking me to
contribute to Spencer's legal defense fund. It was in that letter.
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