[jaws-uk] Re: Thoughts on captchas
- From: "Amro Bilal" <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 23:07:12 -0000
Hi Daniel and all, I don't have any hearing problems but still find the audio
alternative a real pain. I usually have to listen to it three or four times
before I get it right and many times I ask for a new one. Still, it's better
than nothing I suppose until some genius idea comes along.
BTW, I hear that even visual captchas sometimes are a pest too.
My two pence worth!
Amro
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel McGee
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 5:54 PM
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Thoughts on captchas
Hi Jamie, and all. Just two things I would like to add. And they are
probably been mentioned but if not hear it goes anyway.
1. I believe but don't quote me on this but if you sign up for a yahoo group
or many of them through there website rather than doing it through the
standard email medium you have to at some point do an audio capture. I
believe there is an audio one for this.
2. regarding the listening to the audio capture I find it rediculously
impossible to hear them and what's more I have a the even more dis advantage
because I am hearing in pared and have been since birth. So yeah that really
gets om my nervs! LOL Honestly if it could just have a man or a woman saying
the letters or numbers what ever it is just on there own. Rather than the
background noise.
Thanks
Daniel
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jamie Cuthbertson" <jamie.cuthbertson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 5:17 PM
To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Thoughts on captchas
> Tiddy,
>
> No worries, thanks anyway.
>
> Jamie
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of Tiddy Ogg
> Sent: 19 March 2011 15:52
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Thoughts on captchas
>
> Sorry, can't remember.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of Jamie Cuthbertson
> Sent: 19 March 2011 13:46
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Thoughts on captchas
>
> Hi Tristram, Tiddy and Keith,
>
> Thanks for your input - especially your essay Tristram!! (Smile)
>
> All very helpful feedback. Tiddy and Keith, can you remember any of the
> sites where you have experienced the numerical captchas? It would be good
> to be able to point these out as an example.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of Tristram Llewellyn
> Sent: 17 March 2011 17:37
> To: 'jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Thoughts on captchas
>
> I know this isn't much help and probably provocative at best but here
> goes,
> I hope it will at least provide some understanding of the issues involved.
>
> The CAPTCHA is a test designed to tell a human and computer apart. It
> relies solely on the fact that there are certain tasks a human (properly
> equipped with senses) can only do. It has (incorrectly as it turns out)
> been assumed that all humans have the same senses, and that assumption
> that
> sight makes one human is therefore equally suspect.
>
> However one must consider more carefully what is going on before assuming
> this is merely a case of discrimination against non sighted web users.
>
> A CAPTCHA test normally taking the form of an image is displayed that a
> sighted human deciphers. Because what you get as an image a screen reader
> cannot decipher it and therefore neither can a user of that software since
> their screen reader cannot help the crack the test. Of course other
> software exists that aims to defeat CAPTCHAS is used both illegitimately
> by
> those who want to break into resources they shouldn't and those who may
> for
> legitimate reasons which to break a CAPTCHA just to get access to things.
> At this point we should be clear both groups described above are
> essentially
> breaking the CAPTCHA which is a test of humanness (albeit flawed).
>
> Blind users fall into this second category by using various software to
> effectively break a CAPTCHA that is sufficiently weak in order to do so
> (one
> such example is Webvisum for Firefox) The other approach is effectively
> to
> hire some eyes like the Solona approach where a human intermediary is used
> as a service to decipher the CAPTCHA.
>
> The problem philosophically is to genuinely find a test that a blind
> person
> met with a CAPTCHA can genuinely pass which carefully crafted software
> could
> not. When one begins to carefully consider what makes a person uniquely
> human over a distant internet connection it is actually really quite hard
> and therefore an accessible CAPTCHA is a tautology since by being
> accessible
> it no longer functions as an effective test of being a human..
>
> The only ways I have actually thought may be of any help are re-purposing
> technologies that are really designed for authentication like OpenID or
> using some kind of one time password system. Neither of these are really
> the answer however. Therein lies the rub, there really hasn't been a
> solution so far offered that really tackles it since blind people are more
> heavily mediated by technology in order to access the websites that use
> CAPTCHA it is in effect more difficult to tell them apart from a sighted
> fellow human using the same website.
>
> Apologies for the small essay but it may help people to understand why
> this
> problem seems so intractable rather than it simply being a question of
> nobody doing anything.
>
> Regards.
>
> Tristram Llewellyn
> Sight and Sound Technology
> Technical Support
> www.sightandsound.co.uk
>
> Mail:
> Tristram: tristram.llewellyn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Technical: Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> General - info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Phone:
> Support line: 0845 634 7979
>
> Sight and Sound Technology Limited is a company registered in England and
> Wales, with company number 1408275.
>
> Sight and Sound Technology
> Welton House North Wing
> Summerhouse Road
> Moulton Park
> Northampton
> NN3 6WD
>
> VAT Number - GB 860 2121 66.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of Jamie Cuthbertson
> Sent: 17 March 2011 15:18
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Thoughts on captchas
>
> Hi there,
>
> I know that there's been some discussion of the issue of captchas on this
> list in the past but I'm looking for your thoughts on alternatives that a
> web designer might use.
>
> I'm currently working with a software developer who is considering
> introducing a captcha on their site but which, even with the audio
> alternative, is really hard to use. I'm sure that most folk will have
> encountered these at some stage.
>
> I fully understand the reasoning behind the desire to have these as an
> additional security defence but personally hate them with a vengeance.
> Having said that, my dislike of them isn't a particularly pro-active way
> of
> helping the company achieve their desire for increased security but at the
> same time wishing to make the site as accessible as possible.
>
> My question...does anyone know of any commercially available accessible
> captchas or similar security device that will satisfy both requirements?
>
> I also think that some people have mentioned that Firefox has some
> features
> that make captcha solving easier - if this is correct, what is it about
> Firefox that makes this possible?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Jamie
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> signature
> database 5963 (20110317) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ** and in the Subject line type
> ** unsubscribe
> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> ** immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subjectúq]
> ** or send a message, to
> ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ** and in the Subject line type
> ** unsubscribe
> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> ** immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subjectúq]
> ** or send a message, to
> ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> signature
> database 5964 (20110317) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> signature
> database 5967 (20110318) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> signature
> database 5967 (20110318) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ** and in the Subject line type
> ** unsubscribe
> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> ** immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subjectúq]
> ** or send a message, to
> ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>
>
> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ** and in the Subject line type
> ** unsubscribe
> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> ** immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subjectúq]
> ** or send a message, to
> ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> signature
> database 5967 (20110318) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> signature
> database 5967 (20110318) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ** and in the Subject line type
> ** unsubscribe
> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> ** immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subjectúq]
> ** or send a message, to
> ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>
>
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subjectúq]
** or send a message, to
** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
Other related posts:
