Hi EM,
You are right. PIX is not very secure. It's a router with some advanced
ACLs and does neat routing tricks. But when it comes to security, you're
very very wrong that it's more secure. Hardware doesn't fall from heaven,
and all "hardware" is controlled by software, and Syphco's core compentancy
is not application protection -- it's routing and switching.
I agree that there is no comparison between PIX and ISA -- only a fool
would be convinced that they get any real security from a PIX, becuase they
never took the time to learn about network security and what the end game
was. Check Point? That's another story. Like the ISA firewall, Check Point
is a so-called "software firewall" (something to pothead "hardware" firewall
guys often forget). Check Point is better than ISA and you pay a LOT for
that. However, a PIX is a joke and I think the more thoughtful firewall
admins out there realize they've been hyMOtized by the Syphco sales reps.
PIX is a puppy dog, a little terrier, a laptop or a pretty little Persian
kitty cat -- the ISA firewall is the brobdingnagian that provides your real
security. The PIX is an emotional blanket, a network Prozac, an expensive
and illusory work for security fiction. The PIX is the emperor with no
clothes and is front of my hacked Web sites and networks than any other
firewall.
You mention that the PIX software is "advanced" -- I'll give you the
opposite perspective and proffer that it's a trisomy 13 baby compared to the
robust and healthy child that is the ISA firewall. No one has ever broken
into an ISA firewall and I consider the ISA firewall mandatory. A PIX is
nothing more than a historical superstition, a carry over from the dawn days
of the Internet. I never never *never never never never *NEVER recommend
putting a PIX in front or behind or anywhere near the ISA firewall (a Check
Point? Sometimes that's useful for defense in depth -- Check Point, unlike
PIX, is a real network security solution).
The PIX with worthless and weak. Who is it? What is it? What does it plan
to do with it's life? (name that tune!) On the other hand, the ISA firewall
is built by people who understand software, understand security, and is much
more than a stupid router with a "firewall" decal slapped on its bezel.
The ISA firewall's VPN server is MUCH MORE SECURE than the simple PIX VPN.
I've always wondered about the IQ of folks who have thought otherwise. It's
probably not an intelligence issue, but just an ignorance issue, since they
probably don't understand the weaknesses of the PIX VPN solution or the
strengths of the ISA firewall's VPN solutions -- but that's par for the
course for folks who've been hypmotized by the Syphco sales reps, and have
had the implanted suggestions reinforced by the ABMer idiot echo chamber.
Faster is not more secure.
Repeat
Faster is NOT more secure
Repeat
Faster is NOT more secure
Repeat
Faster is NOT NOT NOT more secure
Hardware is NOT more secure
Repeat
Hardware is NOT more secure
Repeat
Hardware is NOT more secure
Repeat
Hardware is NOT more secure
Repeat
Hardware is NOT more secure
Repeat
Hardware is NOT more secure
Repeat
Hardware is NOT more secure
Repeat
Remember, PIX has many security vulnerabilies that you can check out at
Secunia. Strangely enough, the ISA firewall has NONE. And don't feed me that
tired old drivel about "but it runs on Windows". If you can show me how this
is an issue after reading this
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/2006/prodinfo/Firewall_Corewp.mspx (which
you won't do if you depend on your Syphco sales rep for tech info).
Finally, be careful about throwing Syphco PIX FUD around here. I've worked
with the worthless PIX for a long time and studied it in depth. I know it's
cr*p on a cracker and it survives because it's been grandfathered into the
business. We're all now suffering badly because the "network guys" who are
clueless lusers when it comes to understand application security, have
hijacked network security and companies get hacked far more often than they
should because these dolts are "port openers" and "port closers". The
current situation has the clowns *running* the circus.
In conclusion, there are several neuroleptic medications I can recommend
to anyone who seriously believes the worthless PIX is more secure than an
ISA firewall.
IMNHO,
Tom
P.S. You're welcome to borrow any of the creative phases I've included in
this email. I only ask that you give the props :)
*
Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
Site: www.isaserver.org
Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/
Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
MVP -- ISA Firewalls
*
------------------------------
*From:* isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
*On Behalf Of *Egyptian Mind
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 21, 2006 9:01 AM
*To:* isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [isalist] Nothing is secure like PIX
http://www.ISAserver.org
<http://www.isaserver.org/>-------------------------------------------------------
Dears,
No doubt that ISA 2000 or 2004 or even 2006, have increased the
possibility of controling user access,,, by allowing or denying the browsing
or a tiny issue like downloding gif and not downloading jpg as an example..
This shows how much we can control user action,,,
Moreover, features like firewall services, securing VPN connection,
Nating, Publishing web sites, etc.... are very helpfull features to make or
Network Control is much easier...
But Nothing is secure like PIX...
I don't mean that PIX is more secure than ISA, or more capable of handling
requests... I'm talking about features and design and even the hardware
specification.... There is no comparison between ISA and PIX
I'm here, in my network ; using two failover PIX and two clustering ISA
servers as well.. every device has it's responsiblities...
ISA is responisble for handling he request from users and filtering it
depends on customized rules, and the great thing that ISA server is a domain
member, so I can customized the rules directly to specific user ,,,
PIX is my Huge Body Guard which stand infront of my Out Door, to filter
any request come in or out my door... YEs ..( in or out ) not just in ....
and it is built on a very advanced built-in program in the hardware it self,
it is the adaptive security algorithm, which has alot of tools to scan the
coming packet,... like if we said , the ultravoilet, infarraed, and eye
scanner and everything...
It's a very adaptive algorithm and it's very hard to penetrate,,, note
that this alogorithm is working on every packet goes or come , also depend
on your own cutomized rule you make on PIX,,,
and instead that the windows how operates, the adaptive security algorithm
are running using the same processing speed of it's processor, as it is
already loaded in the PIX processor and rams..
How faster do you think it will be !!!!!!?????
it also has a complete secure process for VPN connection and PATING,
NATING , ... etc
But PIX is not function as layer 7 appliance, so we use ISA for this
purpose,,, to control the Application layer and presentation layer...
nothing more, nothing less,, and also because PIX is not integrating with
Active Directory..
Finally, PIX is mandatory for security, and ISA is mandatory for
controling... but if we talked about the ability to be hacked , I think you
will agree with me that hacking a program runing on Windows platform is much
easier from penetrating program runing on security dedicated
appliance........ (( you can ask Bill Jates about it ))
* Best Regards*
* Mohamed Saleh
*
* **Senior Network Administrator
College of Business Administration, CBA
Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Tel: +966-02-6563199 ext 2521
Cell: - +966-50-2953591
*
**
*!~` Yesterday is a History` ~!*
*!~` Tomorrow is a Mystery` ~!*
*!~` Today is a Gift` ~!*
*!~` So we call it ....**...........` ~!*
*!~` Present .......Simple**` ~!*
**
**
------------------------------
From: *"Shane Mullins" <tsmullins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>*
Reply-To: *isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx*
To: *<isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>*
Subject: *[isalist] Re: Hardware.... (cringe) ...firewall ?*
Date: *Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:12:08 -0400*
>http://www.ISAserver.org <http://www.isaserver.org/>
>-------------------------------------------------------
> Good Deal,
>
> We have used ISA since Proxy 2.0. I really liked the upgrade
>from 2.0 to ISA 2000. But, I really really like ISA 2004. Some of
>the new features are great, esp in the VPN areas, stateful packet
>inspection. Also, I like the way ISA integrates into AD, this is
>huge if you are a Windows shop. Also, there are some third party
>snap ins that are very helpful.
>
>Shane
>
>PS I also really enjoyed reading your ISA 2004 book.
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas W Shinder"
><tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 10:33 AM
>Subject: [isalist] Re: Hardware.... (cringe) ...firewall ?
>
>
>http://www.ISAserver.org <http://www.isaserver.org/>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>
>Hi Shane,
>
>No problems, that's how I took it! :)
>
>The PIX tax reminds of when in the middle ages you could pay the
>church
>to absolve you of your sins. The situation here is that they're
>paying
>Cisco for their sin of slothfullness. Slothful in that they haven't
>spent the time and effort to understand real network security and
>blindly pay a router and switch company big money to protect
>comporate
>data (does anyone see the paradox in this?)
>
>Thanks!
>Tom
>
>Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
>Site: www.isaserver.org
>Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/
>Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
>MVP -- ISA Firewalls
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>[mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Shane Mullins
>>Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 7:56 AM
>>To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: [isalist] Re: Hardware.... (cringe) ...firewall ?
>>
>>http://www.ISAserver.org <http://www.isaserver.org/>
>>-------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Hey Thomas,
>>
>> I meant that to be a plug for ISA 2004. I think ISA 2004
>>is great. We
>>have two ISA 2004 boxes that firewall and provide internet
>>access for 3,500
>>machines. ISA 2004 has been rock solid for us. ISA 2004
>>provides advanced
>>logging and caching functions that a "hardware" firewall
>>cannot provide. I
>>have nothing against unix, but ISA 2004 is great.
>> We could have paid 50k for a single pix to provide
>>firewall services.
>>Then signed up for a 5k a year maintenance agreement (so we could
>>rcv
>>updates). And all machines need updates, even "hardware"
>>firewalls have an
>>OS. And ISA still does so much more.
>>
>>Shane
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 6/19/06, Thomas W Shinder <tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> http://www.ISAserver.org <http://www.isaserver.org/>
>> >> -------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Yes, it's that good. Go Daddy and the ISP are clueless.
>>Have you ever
>> >> talked to your ISP's "tech guys" who make these
>>recommendations? Let's
>> >> just say that the typical interaction leaves you with the
>>feeling that
>> >> they're not on the top of the firewall and networking food
>>chains :)
>> >>
>> >> Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
>> >> Site: www.isaserver.org
>> >> Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/
>> >> Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
>> >> MVP -- ISA Firewalls
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> > [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Shane
>>Mullins
>> >> > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 1:10 PM
>> >> > To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> > Subject: [isalist] Re: Hardware.... (cringe) ...firewall ?
>> >> >
>> >> > http://www.ISAserver.org <http://www.isaserver.org/>
>> >> > -------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > ISA 2K4 is really good? There is an eval version. Maybe he
>> >> > would let you
>> >> > try that.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Shane
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: "G.Waleed Kavalec" <kavalec@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> > To: <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 1:08 PM
>> >> > Subject: [isalist] Hardware.... (cringe) ...firewall ?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > > http://www.ISAserver.org <http://www.isaserver.org/>
>> >> > > -------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > > My boss has been talking to our ISP and also to some folks
>> >> > at GoDaddy.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Both use - and recommend - hardware firewall solutions.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > What do I tell him? He is poised to make one of those
>>classic PHB
>> >> > > decisions.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > (currently on ISA 2K)
>> >> > >
>> >> > > --
>> >> > >
>> >> > > G. Waleed Kavalec
>> >> > > -------------------------
>> >> > > Why are we all in this handbasket
>> >> > > and where is it going so fast?
>> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > > List Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/isalist/
>> >> > ISA Server
>> >> > > Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp
>> >> > ISA Server
>> >> > > Articles and Tutorials:
>> >> > http://www.isaserver.org/articles_tutorials/ ISA
>> >> > > Server Blogs:
>> >> > > http://blogs.isaserver.org/
>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > > Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other
>>sites:
>> >> > > http://www.techgenix.com
>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > > To unsubscribe visit
>> >> > http://www.isaserver.org/pages/isalist.asp Report
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>> >> > >
>> >> >
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>> >> > ISA Server Newsletter:
>>http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp
>> >> > ISA Server Articles and Tutorials:
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>> >> > ISA Server Blogs: http://blogs.isaserver.org/
>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other
>>sites:
>> >> > http://www.techgenix.com
>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------
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>>http://www.isaserver.org/pages/isalist.asp
>> >> > Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------
>> >> List Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/isalist/
>> >> ISA Server Newsletter:
>>http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp
>> >> ISA Server Articles and Tutorials:
>> >> http://www.isaserver.org/articles_tutorials/
>> >> ISA Server Blogs: http://blogs.isaserver.org/
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites:
>> >> http://www.techgenix.com
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------
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>> >> Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > -- >
>> > G. Waleed Kavalec
>> > -------------------------
>> > Why are we all in this handbasket
>> > and where is it going so fast?
>> >
>> > http://www.kavalec.com/thisisislam.swf
>> > ------------------------------------------------------
>> > List Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/isalist/
>>ISA Server
>> > Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp
>>ISA Server
>> > Articles and Tutorials:
>>http://www.isaserver.org/articles_tutorials/ ISA
>> > Server Blogs:
>> > http://blogs.isaserver.org/
>>------------------------------------------------------
>> > Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites:
>> > http://www.techgenix.com
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>> > abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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>>ISA Server Articles and Tutorials:
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>>ISA Server Blogs: http://blogs.isaserver.org/
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