[ibis-macro] Re: Backchannel BIRD discussions
- From: Mike LaBonte <mike@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: ambrishv@xxxxxxxxxxx, "twesterh@xxxxxxxxxx" <twesterh@xxxxxxxxxx>, "ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 17:03:19 -0400
I see now, they would be in the BIRD as background for discussion, not
proposed to be in IBIS.
Mike
On 5/19/2014 4:42 PM, Ambrish Varma wrote:
> Hi Mike,
> I was referring to future .bci files and not the ones that would be released
> as examples.
>
> Also - BCI files will not be tied to IBIS release at all. There may be 3-4
> BCI files getting approved by IBIS in a single year. This process will not be
> connected to the IBIS specification in any way.
>
> Thanks,
> Ambrish.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike LaBonte [mailto:mike@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 2:55 PM
> To: Ambrish Varma; twesterh@xxxxxxxxxx; ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [ibis-macro] Re: Backchannel BIRD discussions
>
> The IBIS parser would be updated to recognize .bci files only after an
> IBIS specification covering the BCI format is approved. How would tested
> .bci files be included in the same specification? Yes, BCI files are
> similar to AMI files so maybe ibischk6 -ami could be used, but there are
> syntax rule differences. And getting the syntax right is only part of it.
>
> Overall I'm concerned that we would publish BCI contents in an IBIS
> release only to soon find that changes are needed. Our experience with
> IBIS 5.0 teaches us that getting things wrong in a formal specification
> can be painful. I would recommend focusing on a verified publishing
> procedure independent of the IBIS specification.
>
> Mike
>
> On 5/19/2014 11:24 AM, Ambrish Varma wrote:
>> Hi Todd,
>> We propose to publish 3 .bci files for recent standards as samples with the
>> BIRD. We can discuss the details of the contents when we are finalizing the
>> BIRD. Any future .bci files will be based on the protocols that become
>> available. We will set aside time in the IBIS Open Forum for discussing the
>> new .bci file at which point we may relegate the discussion/approval to the
>> IBIS ATM. Once approved, these files will be publicly available at the IBIS
>> website in a separate directory.
>> These .bci files will be parsed/tested using the latest IBIS parser before
>> getting posted so there should be no surprises at run time.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ambrish.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Todd Westerhoff
>> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 9:41 AM
>> To: ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Backchannel BIRD discussions
>>
>> All,
>>
>> Did we identify the means by which .bci files will be defined and
>> standardized going forward?
>>
>> Todd.
>>
>>
>> Todd Westerhoff
>> VP, Semiconductor Relations
>> Signal Integrity Software Inc. . www.sisoft.com
>> 6 Clock Tower Place . Suite 250 . Maynard, MA 01754
>> (978) 461-0449 x124 . twesterh@xxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> "I want to live like that"
>> -Sidewalk Prophets
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ambrish Varma
>> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 12:41 AM
>> To: ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Backchannel BIRD discussions
>>
>> Thanks Arpad,
>>
>> I would like to take this opportunity to point out the main highlights of
>> the Cadence proposals:
>>
>> - Our proposal implements a traditional backchannel system where the
>> entire job of the EDA tool is to open a communication channel between the
>> Tx and Rx and let them communicate without the need for the EDA tool to
>> interpret anything from the Tx or the Rx. Once the training is completed,
>> the EDA tool detects the 'Traning_Done' parameter and closes the
>> communication channel.
>>
>> - Our proposal also allows for flexible interaction between the Tx and Rx
>> based on a particular protocol. The details of the taps or any other
>> parameters are encapsulated in a separate BCI file that is pointed to in
>> the AMI file based on the protocols that are supported by the AMI model.
>> There is no hardcoded methods of communication that the other method
>> prescribes.
>>
>> - The flexibility to implement and support a 'Private Protocol' is also
>> possible without any further addition of Reserved Parameters.
>>
>> - The backchannel related parameters for training and any protocol
>> specific parameters are confined to the BCI file - the contents of which
>> (for a published protocol) are decided by IBIS and will be available
>> publicly for anyone to see/implement in their AMI models. This leaves the
>> .ami file relatively clean (with a couple of top level backchannel related
>> parameters).
>>
>> These are a few salient features of our proposal. I would also like to
>> point out that we have had the backbone of the proposal (passing a
>> parameters string back and forth from the Tx to the Rx and vice versa)
>> tested in many models. In other words, this is a tried and tested method
>> and will add tremendous value to AMI and the IBIS specification and will
>> fill a huge void in how real devices are modeled.
>>
>> We would be glad to answer any question that might still be out there
>> about our proposal.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ambrish.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad
>> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 6:26 PM
>> To: ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [ibis-macro] Backchannel BIRD discussions
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> First, I would like to draw your attention to two presentations which have
>> been posted recently on the ATM website from Cadence and SiSoft on the
>> topic of Backchannel AMI modeling.
>>
>> http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/macromodel_wip/archive/20140506/ambrishvarma/
>> The%20BCI%20File/BCI_File_and_Communications.pdf
>>
>> http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/macromodel_wip/archive/20140513/walterkatz/Ba
>> ckchannel%20Training%20Co-Optimization/Backchannel_Training_%20Co-Optimiza
>> tion%20BIRD.pptx
>>
>> Once again, our discussions are at crossroads and some important decisions
>> need to be made. I would like to make a request to everyone to become
>> familiar with the two proposals and be ready to express your opinion
>> and/or preference in the upcoming IBIS-ATM teleconference. I would like
>> to encourage IC vendors and model makers to pay attention to this
>> discussion and express your opinion in this discussion because the
>> decision we are about to make will have a great effect on how models with
>> Backchannel training and optimization features will have to be written.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Arpad
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