[ibis-macro] Re: Backchannel BIRD discussions
- From: Mike LaBonte <mike@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: ambrishv@xxxxxxxxxxx, "twesterh@xxxxxxxxxx" <twesterh@xxxxxxxxxx>, "ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 14:55:12 -0400
The IBIS parser would be updated to recognize .bci files only after an
IBIS specification covering the BCI format is approved. How would tested
.bci files be included in the same specification? Yes, BCI files are
similar to AMI files so maybe ibischk6 -ami could be used, but there are
syntax rule differences. And getting the syntax right is only part of it.
Overall I'm concerned that we would publish BCI contents in an IBIS
release only to soon find that changes are needed. Our experience with
IBIS 5.0 teaches us that getting things wrong in a formal specification
can be painful. I would recommend focusing on a verified publishing
procedure independent of the IBIS specification.
Mike
On 5/19/2014 11:24 AM, Ambrish Varma wrote:
> Hi Todd,
> We propose to publish 3 .bci files for recent standards as samples with the
> BIRD. We can discuss the details of the contents when we are finalizing the
> BIRD. Any future .bci files will be based on the protocols that become
> available. We will set aside time in the IBIS Open Forum for discussing the
> new .bci file at which point we may relegate the discussion/approval to the
> IBIS ATM. Once approved, these files will be publicly available at the IBIS
> website in a separate directory.
> These .bci files will be parsed/tested using the latest IBIS parser before
> getting posted so there should be no surprises at run time.
>
> Thanks,
> Ambrish.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Todd Westerhoff
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 9:41 AM
> To: ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Backchannel BIRD discussions
>
> All,
>
> Did we identify the means by which .bci files will be defined and
> standardized going forward?
>
> Todd.
>
>
> Todd Westerhoff
> VP, Semiconductor Relations
> Signal Integrity Software Inc. . www.sisoft.com
> 6 Clock Tower Place . Suite 250 . Maynard, MA 01754
> (978) 461-0449 x124 . twesterh@xxxxxxxxxx
>
> "I want to live like that"
> -Sidewalk Prophets
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ambrish Varma
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 12:41 AM
> To: ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Backchannel BIRD discussions
>
> Thanks Arpad,
>
> I would like to take this opportunity to point out the main highlights of
> the Cadence proposals:
>
> - Our proposal implements a traditional backchannel system where the
> entire job of the EDA tool is to open a communication channel between the
> Tx and Rx and let them communicate without the need for the EDA tool to
> interpret anything from the Tx or the Rx. Once the training is completed,
> the EDA tool detects the 'Traning_Done' parameter and closes the
> communication channel.
>
> - Our proposal also allows for flexible interaction between the Tx and Rx
> based on a particular protocol. The details of the taps or any other
> parameters are encapsulated in a separate BCI file that is pointed to in
> the AMI file based on the protocols that are supported by the AMI model.
> There is no hardcoded methods of communication that the other method
> prescribes.
>
> - The flexibility to implement and support a 'Private Protocol' is also
> possible without any further addition of Reserved Parameters.
>
> - The backchannel related parameters for training and any protocol
> specific parameters are confined to the BCI file - the contents of which
> (for a published protocol) are decided by IBIS and will be available
> publicly for anyone to see/implement in their AMI models. This leaves the
> .ami file relatively clean (with a couple of top level backchannel related
> parameters).
>
> These are a few salient features of our proposal. I would also like to
> point out that we have had the backbone of the proposal (passing a
> parameters string back and forth from the Tx to the Rx and vice versa)
> tested in many models. In other words, this is a tried and tested method
> and will add tremendous value to AMI and the IBIS specification and will
> fill a huge void in how real devices are modeled.
>
> We would be glad to answer any question that might still be out there
> about our proposal.
>
> Regards,
> Ambrish.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 6:26 PM
> To: ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [ibis-macro] Backchannel BIRD discussions
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> First, I would like to draw your attention to two presentations which have
> been posted recently on the ATM website from Cadence and SiSoft on the
> topic of Backchannel AMI modeling.
>
> http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/macromodel_wip/archive/20140506/ambrishvarma/
> The%20BCI%20File/BCI_File_and_Communications.pdf
>
> http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/macromodel_wip/archive/20140513/walterkatz/Ba
> ckchannel%20Training%20Co-Optimization/Backchannel_Training_%20Co-Optimiza
> tion%20BIRD.pptx
>
> Once again, our discussions are at crossroads and some important decisions
> need to be made. I would like to make a request to everyone to become
> familiar with the two proposals and be ready to express your opinion
> and/or preference in the upcoming IBIS-ATM teleconference. I would like
> to encourage IC vendors and model makers to pay attention to this
> discussion and express your opinion in this discussion because the
> decision we are about to make will have a great effect on how models with
> Backchannel training and optimization features will have to be written.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Arpad
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