[geocentrism] Re: KJB v. NKJB
- From: "Dr. Neville Jones" <ntj005@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:42:54 +0000 (GMT)
Cheryl,
I am forced to step in, because these tirades are getting out of hand.
Is everything listed down for our instruction in the King James Bible? Every t
crossed, every i dotted? Is everything that could possibly, ever happen in our
lives listed there, together with detailed instruction of what to do in each
circumstance? If so, then why did the disciples require the Holy Spirit? Why do
we need a teacher (Christ)?
You cannot go about with such destructive criticism of all and sundry, just
because they do not see things in two-tone black and white, as you do.
Please contemplate the following verse from the King James Bible:
(1 Pet 3:4 KJV) But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is
not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the
sight of God of great price.
Yours in Christ (I assure you, even though I do not regard the KJ as
infallible),
Neville.
Bob Davidson <Jesus4me@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Cheryl,
1) I really hate it when people put words in my mouth to suit their agenda.
I NEVER said the KJV is "the most accurate". I used the terms "arguably"
and "possibly", trying to be generous to you.
2) You completely ignore what the translators themselves had to say. They
tell us they were not inspired and that their work would eventually have to
be updated, but you ignore that.
3) The translators of the KJV translated and incorporated the Apocrypha as
the Holy Word of God. Either it is inspired or the translators made an
enormous error.
4) The NKJV does not "just get rid of the 'thees and thous' and change[s] a
word here or there". I conclude that you never bothered to read what its
translators had to say, either.
5) I suppose if God were to speak to you in the original Greek and Hebrew,
unless you are fluent in those languages, you would likewise conclude that
He was speaking in a "forgettable, vague, and just kind of ugly sounding and
tacky manner" since you would have no clue what He was saying unless He
spoke in old English.
7) Now I see that someone resents the way that I occasionally sign off as I
indicate my love for God. That is petty and ungodly.
8) You are now an authority on the NKJV, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, and
apparently all other manuscripts and translations? What are your
credentials?
9) So I have to conclude that you, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, believe
that the Holy Spirit is an "it" instead of a "He". The Greek word
translated "itself" in the KJV is 'ow-tos', which is an article or pronoun
translated depending on the context of its use. If we are talking about the
Person of God, it is properly translated as "Him". [Someone who knows
Greek, please chime in].
10) God is the Creator. The Divinity of Jesus is God but the humanity
(flesh) of Jesus is not. If the whole person of Jesus were God, He could
not have died on the cross. To say that the World was made "through" Jesus
and not "by" Jesus is the most accurate way to express those facts. It is
not a "HUGE difference". It more accurately reflects where the Creative
power is derived from - God from eternity past. The body of Jesus did not
exist until 2000 years ago. His body had nothing to do with Creation. In
fact, it is part of the Creation. To say that the World was made "by" Jesus
is to imply wrongly that His entire being, including his humanity made from
DNA, had the power to create ex nihilo and that His body also existed as God
from eternity past.
11) It is rather convenient that you can pardon the Bibles leading up to the
KJV as good and useful, despite the fact that they were full of errors -
some very gross - but any translations after KJV are of the devil.
12) God's Word is pure and will outlast the Heaven's and the earth. As I
said before, the original manuscripts in the original languages were
God-breathed, perfect and inerrant. If you think that those languages can
be translated to the uttermost perfection into another language, you are
badly mistaken. Words, phrases, idioms, parts of speech, etc., CANNOT be
translated perfectly between such languages. If you had even a rudimentary
understanding of those languages you would already know that.
What I find depressing here are your baseless - and uninformed - arguments.
In His Service,
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: geocentrism-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:geocentrism-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Cheryl
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 4:20 AM
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [geocentrism] KJB v. NKJB
Bob -- You say (below) that the KJB is the most accurate, yet you quote from
the New (and improved) KJV (per)version. The NKJV is the version that
supposedly just gets rid of the "thees and thous" and changes a word here
and there. There was absolutely no resemblance to what you quoted as
"Scripture" to the verse it replaces in KJB. As I said, your version
sounds like it was written by a Health and Human Services government
beurocrat and it is offensive and laughable to think God would ever speak in
that manner -- specifically in such a forgettable, vague, and just kind of
ugly-sounding and tacky manner.
And you yourself claim no inspiration to your NKJV. You say KJB is full of
errors but that your own so-called bible is full of even more; yet you claim
to represent God "in his Service" as you sign off, but you come on with
your defective, untrustworthy, plastic sword of the spirit to do battle.
If I had as little faith in my Bible as you have in yours, I would throw in
the towel and quit. And even admitting KJB is more accurate, you still
quote from that awful NKJV.
As to the verses you quote in Romans 8:16 and 26 referring to the Holy
Spirit as itself instead of Himself, in verse 27 the Spirit is referred to
as "he." I've never one time ever seen one single verse in KJB that I
thought should be changed. I believe the word "itself" is there because
it is the best word and needs to be there and because God WANTS it there.
When I see a word in my KJB I take it seriously as God's Word. I don't
second-guess it and presume to reword or rewrite it, go looking around from
version to version until I find the one I like best that suits me.
You talk about the JWs. The NKJV is doctrinally in line with them. Why?
Because it strips Jesus of His divinity as Creator. In all verses which
refer to Jesus as Creator, the KJV says the World was made BY Jesus. But
your (per)version (and ALL the others as well) says the world was made
THROUGH Jesus. Big difference. HUGE difference in a major, foundational,
crucial doctrine on the divinity of Jesus. Is Jesus the Creator of the
Universe or isn't He? Not ONE SINGLE OTHER (per)VERSION SAYS JESUS IS THE
CREATOR. NOT ONE. And that includes YOUR (per)version, regardless of its
claims to having been translated from the correct manuscripts (it wasn't)
and that it just makes a few changes in the thees and thous.
The NKJV doesn't use the Textus Receptus but rather the Majority Text
manuscripts. It is essentially a Catholic bible.
As to all your questions of why did God do this and that, not produce a
Bible for everyone immediately (meaning I suppose within 100 years) -- I
don't know the answer to that question, but God does, as to why He chose the
timing to make His appearance on earth 1500 years before the invention of
the printing press. As to the Geneva Bible, the Bishops Bible, William
Tyndale's Bible (for which Tyndale was martyred) -- these were good Bibles,
not perfect or complete, but nonetheless good and proper Bibles that the KJV
translators held in great respect and incorporated into their own
translation-- in Tyndale's case almost all his translation was put in
intact. God's Word culminated with KJB, perfect and complete. All
versions after KJB are perversions written by occultists and people with
agendas, were written without annointing and to the detriment of and in
opposition to God's own Word. As Gail Riplinger states, these are New Age
Bible Versions that are heading to the final (per)version that will be so
generic that every religion on earth will be able to find their own
"truths" in it. And it's not true that there were many revisions and
thousands of changes made to KJB. All changes involved formatting and
fixing typos, not changing the translation at all, and my own KJV has typos
in it here and there.
The Apocrypha? I already discussed KJV and the Apocrypha and I'll repost
it. But the Apocrypha is not inspired Scripture. Whether the King James
translators had a hand in translating it or not is irrelevant. I see
nothing wrong with the Apocrypha being translated. That it was included and
later dropped from inclusion in the KJV does not change the translation in
any way, the preservation of God's Word. It is just part of the
culmination into the perfection and completion of God's Word by God's
providence and preservation of His Word..
God is able to preserve His Word and Scripture itself says that he HAS
preserved it. I challenge you to show me one place in KJV where there is
error.
There are places on this earth now where people do not have a Bible. There
are also places on this earth where there are more Bibles than there are
people, but people don't read it, don't memorize it, don't appreciate it,
don't believe in it, say it needs a lot of fixing, and where people feel
free to rewrite it or paraphrase it themselves with the use of their Greek
dictionaries. It's likely that the first 1500 years when all people such
as the Waldenses and Albigenses and other Christians had were hand-copied
manuscripts it's likely these people appreciated and believed in Scripture
more than people do today. The point is, the Bible says in Psalm 119 that
God's Word is very pure, and Jesus said Heaven and Earth would pass away but
His Word would never pass away.
I'm not finished but I'll quit for now. It breaks my heart to see people
cutting their spiritual legs out from under themselves, attacking God's
Word, trying to fight Satan with a plastic sword, self-confessed phony
bibles full of errors. I thought when I came to a geocentric forum I'd find
some KJB people here because the vast majority of geocentrists are KJB
people. Instead, all I find are doubters, lost wanderers with no authority
to stand on, throwing stones against the Bible. It's quite depressing
actually, that and the starving of Terri Shindler just before Easter.
Cheryl
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Other related posts:
