[geocentrism] Re: KJB v. NKJB
- From: "Cheryl" <c.battles@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 10:26:58 -0500
Dr. Jones -- There is no tirade going on here at all. I just speak very
plainly. I mean every single word I've said. I can defend whatever I've
said. I'm making my points as clearly and sharply as I possibly can in
order to get through the lethargy and complacency and delusion. Same way
with people believing in a spinning, rotating earth. You can't hint around
or beat around the bush. You point out the truth and it hurts. I will
guarantee you that NASA thinks what you write about them are also tirades.
I am just holding Bob to his own words and statements, to his own positions
that he's taken. I've told him, fine, this is what you believe. Well, it's
hypocritical because if you're going to be consistent in what you say, then
what about this?
In other words, I'm trying to get him and anyone else reading this to THINK
THINGS THROUGH. People who go about speaking their minds on things they
have not thought through are subject to being found wrong.
That's why I don't get dogmatic on things I've not throught through. I told
you, I will defend the Word of God even before I defend you. This is
relevant to your forum on geocentrism. Namely, we need God's Word for our
authority.
You need someone like me and Gordon Bane to defend God's Word. His Word is
not hidden in piles of manuscripts of all sorts and kinds. Rather, it is
revealed, all nicely organized, and under two covers. It's called the King
James Bible, and we have it because God is ABLE TO PRESERVE HIS WORD. And
God's Word DOES NOT CHANGE.
Nobody would think of revising and improving or changaing or updating the
so-called "original manuscripts." But people presume think the KJB needs
improving and changing. This in spite of the fact that Jesus said:
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one
jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass
away.
Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle
of the law to fail.
Luke 21:33 Heaven and earath shall pass away: but MY WORDS shall not pass
away.
Matthew 4:4 (Jesus to Satan): It is WRITTEN, (i.e. Jesus believed in
Scripture, so why can't we?) Man shall not live by bread alone, but BY
EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Maatthew 13:19 When any one hearth the WORD of the kingdom, and
understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that
which was sown in his heart (i.e. the Word). This is he which received seed
by the way side.
Mark 4:13-20 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then
will ye know ALL parables? The sower soweth the WORD. And these are they
by the way side, where the WORD is sown; but when they have heard, Satan
cometh immediately, and taketh away the WORD that was sown in their hearts.
And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they
have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root
in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or
persecution ariseth for the WORD's sake, immediately they are offended. And
thse are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the WORD, And the
cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other
things entering in, choke the WORD, and it becometh unfruitful. And these
are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the WORD, and receive
it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty,and some an hundred.
(This same parable is in Matthew, Mark and Luke)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr. Neville Jones" <ntj005@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 9:42 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: KJB v. NKJB
> Cheryl,
>
> I am forced to step in, because these tirades are getting out of hand.
>
> Is everything listed down for our instruction in the King James Bible?
> Every t crossed, every i dotted? Is everything that could possibly, ever
> happen in our lives listed there, together with detailed instruction of
> what to do in each circumstance? If so, then why did the disciples require
> the Holy Spirit? Why do we need a teacher (Christ)?
>
> You cannot go about with such destructive criticism of all and sundry,
> just because they do not see things in two-tone black and white, as you
> do.
>
> Please contemplate the following verse from the King James Bible:
>
> (1 Pet 3:4 KJV) But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which
> is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is
> in the sight of God of great price.
>
> Yours in Christ (I assure you, even though I do not regard the KJ as
> infallible),
>
> Neville.
>
> Bob Davidson <Jesus4me@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Cheryl,
>
> 1) I really hate it when people put words in my mouth to suit their
> agenda.
> I NEVER said the KJV is "the most accurate". I used the terms "arguably"
> and "possibly", trying to be generous to you.
> 2) You completely ignore what the translators themselves had to say. They
> tell us they were not inspired and that their work would eventually have
> to
> be updated, but you ignore that.
> 3) The translators of the KJV translated and incorporated the Apocrypha as
> the Holy Word of God. Either it is inspired or the translators made an
> enormous error.
> 4) The NKJV does not "just get rid of the 'thees and thous' and change[s]
> a
> word here or there". I conclude that you never bothered to read what its
> translators had to say, either.
> 5) I suppose if God were to speak to you in the original Greek and Hebrew,
> unless you are fluent in those languages, you would likewise conclude that
> He was speaking in a "forgettable, vague, and just kind of ugly sounding
> and
> tacky manner" since you would have no clue what He was saying unless He
> spoke in old English.
> 7) Now I see that someone resents the way that I occasionally sign off as
> I
> indicate my love for God. That is petty and ungodly.
> 8) You are now an authority on the NKJV, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, and
> apparently all other manuscripts and translations? What are your
> credentials?
> 9) So I have to conclude that you, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, believe
> that the Holy Spirit is an "it" instead of a "He". The Greek word
> translated "itself" in the KJV is 'ow-tos', which is an article or pronoun
> translated depending on the context of its use. If we are talking about
> the
> Person of God, it is properly translated as "Him". [Someone who knows
> Greek, please chime in].
> 10) God is the Creator. The Divinity of Jesus is God but the humanity
> (flesh) of Jesus is not. If the whole person of Jesus were God, He could
> not have died on the cross. To say that the World was made "through" Jesus
> and not "by" Jesus is the most accurate way to express those facts. It is
> not a "HUGE difference". It more accurately reflects where the Creative
> power is derived from - God from eternity past. The body of Jesus did not
> exist until 2000 years ago. His body had nothing to do with Creation. In
> fact, it is part of the Creation. To say that the World was made "by"
> Jesus
> is to imply wrongly that His entire being, including his humanity made
> from
> DNA, had the power to create ex nihilo and that His body also existed as
> God
> from eternity past.
> 11) It is rather convenient that you can pardon the Bibles leading up to
> the
> KJV as good and useful, despite the fact that they were full of errors -
> some very gross - but any translations after KJV are of the devil.
> 12) God's Word is pure and will outlast the Heaven's and the earth. As I
> said before, the original manuscripts in the original languages were
> God-breathed, perfect and inerrant. If you think that those languages can
> be translated to the uttermost perfection into another language, you are
> badly mistaken. Words, phrases, idioms, parts of speech, etc., CANNOT be
> translated perfectly between such languages. If you had even a rudimentary
> understanding of those languages you would already know that.
>
> What I find depressing here are your baseless - and uninformed -
> arguments.
>
> In His Service,
>
> Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: geocentrism-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:geocentrism-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Cheryl
> Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 4:20 AM
> To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [geocentrism] KJB v. NKJB
>
> Bob -- You say (below) that the KJB is the most accurate, yet you quote
> from
> the New (and improved) KJV (per)version. The NKJV is the version that
> supposedly just gets rid of the "thees and thous" and changes a word here
> and there. There was absolutely no resemblance to what you quoted as
> "Scripture" to the verse it replaces in KJB. As I said, your version
> sounds like it was written by a Health and Human Services government
> beurocrat and it is offensive and laughable to think God would ever speak
> in
> that manner -- specifically in such a forgettable, vague, and just kind of
> ugly-sounding and tacky manner.
>
> And you yourself claim no inspiration to your NKJV. You say KJB is full of
> errors but that your own so-called bible is full of even more; yet you
> claim
> to represent God "in his Service" as you sign off, but you come on with
> your defective, untrustworthy, plastic sword of the spirit to do battle.
> If I had as little faith in my Bible as you have in yours, I would throw
> in
> the towel and quit. And even admitting KJB is more accurate, you still
> quote from that awful NKJV.
>
> As to the verses you quote in Romans 8:16 and 26 referring to the Holy
> Spirit as itself instead of Himself, in verse 27 the Spirit is referred to
> as "he." I've never one time ever seen one single verse in KJB that I
> thought should be changed. I believe the word "itself" is there because
> it is the best word and needs to be there and because God WANTS it there.
> When I see a word in my KJB I take it seriously as God's Word. I don't
> second-guess it and presume to reword or rewrite it, go looking around
> from
> version to version until I find the one I like best that suits me.
>
> You talk about the JWs. The NKJV is doctrinally in line with them. Why?
> Because it strips Jesus of His divinity as Creator. In all verses which
> refer to Jesus as Creator, the KJV says the World was made BY Jesus. But
> your (per)version (and ALL the others as well) says the world was made
> THROUGH Jesus. Big difference. HUGE difference in a major, foundational,
> crucial doctrine on the divinity of Jesus. Is Jesus the Creator of the
> Universe or isn't He? Not ONE SINGLE OTHER (per)VERSION SAYS JESUS IS THE
> CREATOR. NOT ONE. And that includes YOUR (per)version, regardless of its
> claims to having been translated from the correct manuscripts (it wasn't)
> and that it just makes a few changes in the thees and thous.
>
> The NKJV doesn't use the Textus Receptus but rather the Majority Text
> manuscripts. It is essentially a Catholic bible.
>
> As to all your questions of why did God do this and that, not produce a
> Bible for everyone immediately (meaning I suppose within 100 years) -- I
> don't know the answer to that question, but God does, as to why He chose
> the
> timing to make His appearance on earth 1500 years before the invention of
> the printing press. As to the Geneva Bible, the Bishops Bible, William
> Tyndale's Bible (for which Tyndale was martyred) -- these were good
> Bibles,
> not perfect or complete, but nonetheless good and proper Bibles that the
> KJV
> translators held in great respect and incorporated into their own
> translation-- in Tyndale's case almost all his translation was put in
> intact. God's Word culminated with KJB, perfect and complete. All
> versions after KJB are perversions written by occultists and people with
> agendas, were written without annointing and to the detriment of and in
> opposition to God's own Word. As Gail Riplinger states, these are New Age
> Bible Versions that are heading to the final (per)version that will be so
> generic that every religion on earth will be able to find their own
> "truths" in it. And it's not true that there were many revisions and
> thousands of changes made to KJB. All changes involved formatting and
> fixing typos, not changing the translation at all, and my own KJV has
> typos
> in it here and there.
>
> The Apocrypha? I already discussed KJV and the Apocrypha and I'll repost
> it. But the Apocrypha is not inspired Scripture. Whether the King James
> translators had a hand in translating it or not is irrelevant. I see
> nothing wrong with the Apocrypha being translated. That it was included
> and
> later dropped from inclusion in the KJV does not change the translation in
> any way, the preservation of God's Word. It is just part of the
> culmination into the perfection and completion of God's Word by God's
> providence and preservation of His Word..
>
> God is able to preserve His Word and Scripture itself says that he HAS
> preserved it. I challenge you to show me one place in KJV where there is
> error.
>
> There are places on this earth now where people do not have a Bible. There
> are also places on this earth where there are more Bibles than there are
> people, but people don't read it, don't memorize it, don't appreciate it,
> don't believe in it, say it needs a lot of fixing, and where people feel
> free to rewrite it or paraphrase it themselves with the use of their Greek
> dictionaries. It's likely that the first 1500 years when all people such
> as the Waldenses and Albigenses and other Christians had were hand-copied
> manuscripts it's likely these people appreciated and believed in Scripture
> more than people do today. The point is, the Bible says in Psalm 119 that
> God's Word is very pure, and Jesus said Heaven and Earth would pass away
> but
> His Word would never pass away.
>
> I'm not finished but I'll quit for now. It breaks my heart to see people
> cutting their spiritual legs out from under themselves, attacking God's
> Word, trying to fight Satan with a plastic sword, self-confessed phony
> bibles full of errors. I thought when I came to a geocentric forum I'd
> find
> some KJB people here because the vast majority of geocentrists are KJB
> people. Instead, all I find are doubters, lost wanderers with no authority
> to stand on, throwing stones against the Bible. It's quite depressing
> actually, that and the starving of Terri Shindler just before Easter.
>
> Cheryl
> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
>
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