[geocentrism] Re: Calendar query
- From: "Cheryl" <c.battles@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 17:39:12 -0500
I'm putting up an article on this subject that seems to have sensible
answers to everything -- namely that the crucifixion occurred in AD 31 when
there were two Sabbaths. The only reason this question would be important
to answer is that precise conformance to prophecy and accuracy of the Bible
is at stake. I have no doubts about either. I'm sure there's a correct
explanation for what might appear to be a discrepancy. I'm not sure which
it is, but the one below seems to make sense.
Cheryl
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Resurrection of Jesus in Prophecy
Did the resurrection fulfill the prophecy of Jonah?
by Dr. David Reagan
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The most significant prophecy in the Bible concerning the resurrection of
Jesus is known as "the prophecy of Jonah." It is a symbolic prophecy
represented by the three days and three nights that Jonah spent in the
stomach of a great fish (Jonah 1:17).
Jesus explained the prophetic symbolism of this unique event on an
occasion when He rebuked the Pharisees for seeking a "sign" from Him. By a
"sign," they meant a miracle that would validate Jesus' claim to be the
Messiah.
The Prophecy's Meaning
Jesus took their word and played with it by telling them that the only
"sign" they would be given would be "the sign of Jonah." Jesus then
proceeded to explain what He was talking about: "for just as Jonah was three
days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so shall the Son of
Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." (Matthew
12:38-40)
Jesus clearly and distinctly prophesies here, using the example of Jonah,
that He will spend three days and three nights in the tomb before His
resurrection will occur.
This prophecy, like all Messianic prophecies, had to be fulfilled in the
life of Jesus if He truly was the Messiah of God. Jesus emphasized this
point Himself after His resurrection when He told His disciples, "All things
which are written about Me in the law of Moses and the Prophets and the
Psalms must be fulfilled." (Luke 24:44)
The Prophecy vs. Tradition
But was the prophecy of Jonah really fulfilled in the burial experience of
Jesus? According to the traditionally accepted chronology of events, it was
not!
The traditional chronology places the crucifixion on Friday morning and
the burial on late Friday afternoon. It fixes the resurrection on Sunday
morning. Thus, according to the traditional view, the body of Jesus was in
the tomb only one full day (Saturday) and two full nights (Friday and
Saturday). Jesus said His body would be in the tomb three days and three
nights.
There have been many attempts to reconcile the problem that is raised here
by the divergence between the prophecy and the traditional view of its
fulfillment, but all the attempts I have read have always fallen short of
producing a true fulfillment of the prophecy. Jesus said all Messianic
prophecy had to be fulfilled in Him, and I believe He meant every detail of
every Messianic prophecy. Otherwise, it could be argued that He was not the
Messiah.
The Source of the Problem
Let's consider the events in the last week of Jesus' life to see if we can
find some clues that will solve the problem. Perhaps the best place to begin
is with the problem itself. It is rooted in Mark 15:42 where it says that
the crucifixion took place on "the day of preparation before the Sabbath."
This verse has led most people to assume that the crucifixion took place
on a Friday since the Jewish Sabbath is Saturday. And that assumption has in
turn led to the conclusion that the crucifixion had to take place in either
30 or 33 AD because those are the only two years in the general time period
of Jesus' death when the day of preparation (14 Nisan on the Jewish
calendar) fell on a Friday.
Peculiarities of the Jewish Calendar
A careful study of Jewish calendar practices will show that the assumption
that the day of preparation in the year of Jesus' death had to fall on a
Friday is invalid! Such an assumption is based upon Gentile ignorance about
Jewish feast days.
What the Gentile church has failed to recognize over the centuries is that
the first day after Passover (15 Nisan) is a feast day, or "high day"
because it is the beginning of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. It is
therefore considered to be a Sabbath, regardless of which day of the week on
which it falls. Read Numbers 28:16-18. Verse 18 clearly indicates that the
first day after Passover, Nisan 15, is to be observed as a Sabbath - and so
it has been throughout Jewish history to this day.
Now, the Gospel of John makes it clear that the Sabbath after the
crucifixion was not a regular Sabbath. Rather, it was a feast day Sabbath,
marking the beginning of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Consider the words
of John 19:31 - "The Jews, therefore, because it was the day of preparation,
so that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that
Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and
that they might be taken away."
Solving the Problem
Again, the point of all this is that Jesus did not have to be killed on a
Friday in order for His crucifixion to precede the Sabbath because there
could have been two Sabbaths during the week of His crucifixion, depending
on what day of the week the high feast day fell on. If it fell on Saturday,
then there was only one Sabbath. But if it fell on another day of the week,
as it usually does, there would be two Sabbaths.
Take the year 31 AD for example. In that year the 14th of Nisan, the
Passover day on which Jesus would have been crucified, fell on Wednesday,
April 25th. The next day, Thursday, would have been the high feast day, and
therefore it would have been a Sabbath.
Thus, if Jesus was crucified in the year 31, He would have been crucified
on Wednesday and buried that evening before the high feast day Sabbath
began. His body would have remained in the tomb for three days (Thursday,
Friday and Saturday) and three nights (Wednesday, Thursday and Friday), just
as He predicted. That means His resurrection would have taken place on
Saturday evening, April 28th. To the Jew, that would place the Lord's
resurrection on Sunday, the first day of the week, because the Jewish day
begins at sundown.
The Crucial Clue
There is a clue in the Scriptures that the crucifixion week had two
Sabbaths. In Mark 15:47 we are told that Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother
of James remained at the tomb after Jesus had been buried.
In Mark 16:1 it says that the two of them bought spices to anoint the body
of Jesus after the Sabbath was over. But in Luke 23:56 it says they bought
the spices before the Sabbath and then rested on the Sabbath before
proceeding to the tomb on Sunday morning.
There seems to be only one explanation of the apparent contradiction in
these verses. After resting on the high day Sabbath on Thursday, the ladies
bought the spices on Friday and then rested again on the regular weekly
Sabbath on Saturday before proceeding to the tomb on Sunday morning. This
explains how they could have bought the spices both before and after the
Sabbath. They bought them after the high Sabbath on Thursday but before the
regular Sabbath on Saturday.
An Amazing Corroboration
A fascinating fact that also indicates that the resurrection occurred in
31 AD is to be found in the writings of Josephus, the first century Jewish
historian. He says the last Jubilee that was celebrated in the land (before
the Roman conquest in 70 AD) began in the fall of 27 AD.
That date most likely marks the beginning of Jesus' ministry, for His
ministry was a symbolic fulfillment of the Jubilee promises. This is
indicated by the scripture that Jesus read in the synagogue in Nazareth when
He launched His public ministry (Luke 4:16-24 & Isaiah 61:1-2):
The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He anointed Me to preach the
Gospel to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives, And
recovery of sight to the blind, To set free those who are downtrodden, To
proclaim the favorable year of the Lord.
It is commonly agreed that the ministry of Jesus lasted 3 1/2 years. A
launching date in the fall of 27 AD to coincide with the beginning of the
Jubilee would place His death in the spring of 31 AD - the year in which the
Passover week had two Sabbaths.
A Final Problem
Another point of controversy about the resurrection week concerns the
nature of the Lord's last supper with His disciples. The church has
traditionally taught that this was the Passover meal. But the scriptures
clearly indicate that the meal was eaten the evening before Passover.
Jesus was crucified on the day of preparation for the Passover. In fact,
He died at three o'clock in the afternoon at the precise moment that the
Passover lambs were beings slaughtered for the Passover meal that evening
(Matthew 27:45-46). Jesus and His disciples had eaten their last meal
together the evening before Passover. Yet, Jesus referred to His last meal
with His disciples as "keeping the Passover" (Matthew 26:18). So, it must
have been a Passover meal that was celebrated one evening early.
Professor Harold Hoehner of Dallas Theological Seminary has proposed a
solution to this problem. He says there is evidence that the Galilean Jews
reckoned time differently from the Judean Jews. Whereas the Judean Jews
counted a day from sunset to sunset, the Galilean Jews, according to
Hoehner, counted a day from sunrise to sunrise. If this is true, then Jesus
and His disciples, being Galileans, would have celebrated Passover one
evening earlier than their Jewish brethren in the Jerusalem area. (See
"Chronological Aspects of the Life of Christ" by Harold W. Hoehner.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Summary of the Order of Events
Regarding the Death, Burial and Resurrection
of Jesus in 31 AD
1) Jesus and His disciples ate the Passover meal on a Tuesday evening
(April 24th) in the Upper Room on Mount Zion.
2) After the Passover meal, Jesus and His disciples departed the Upper
Room and walked to the Garden of Gethsemane in the Kidron Valley between the
Old City and the Mount of Olives.
3) Jesus was betrayed and arrested early Tuesday evening. His various
trials lasted throughout Tuesday night and early Wednesday morning.
4) Jesus was crucified at about 9:00 am on Wednesday morning (April 25th).
At noon, darkness filled the land. At about 3:00 pm Jesus died.
5) Jesus was buried on Wednesday about sunset.
6) The two Marys waited until after the high Sabbath on Thursday (April
26th) to purchase the spices for the anointing of Jesus' body. They bought
the spices on Friday (April 27th) and then rested again during the regular
Sabbath on Saturday (April 28th) before returning to the tomb on Sunday
morning (April 29th).
7) The resurrection of Jesus occurred on Saturday evening (Sunday by
Judean reckoning of time). The resurrection was discovered on Sunday morning
when the women returned to the tomb.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What Difference Does It Make?
Lest you be tempted to write all this off as much ado about nothing, let
me explain why I think it is important. Prophecy and its fulfillment
validate Jesus as who He said He was - namely, God in the flesh. Prophecy
and its fulfillment also validate the Bible as the inspired Word of God.
Prophecy must be fulfilled precisely, not approximately.
The precise fulfillment of prophecy regarding the First Coming of Jesus is
our assurance that all the prophecies regarding His Second Coming will also
be fulfilled completely to the last detail. God will not forget or overlook
anything. He is true to His Word. He keeps His promises.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allen Daves" <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 2:46 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Calendar query
> Carl,
>
> I usually try to avoid these conversations as they tend to become endless
> debates among academics. However, I will just say that the scripture is
> clear ,plain & it is easily understood with out any difficult reading, if
> you accept it the same way that you might " the Sun Stood still". I will
> not continue this here, as you are right. We will just take away from this
> forum. I would be happy to discuss it with you otherwise.
>
>
>
> Allen
>
> Carl Felland <cfelland@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Allen,
> At the risk of remaining off the subject of geocentrism I'd like to
> share my thoughts on the three days and three nights in the heart of the
> earth.
>
> I was recently worshipping with a group that was held together by the
> understanding that Messiah was in the grave for a full 72 hours.
> However, this belief has been challenged. I find no direct correlation
> in the Bible of the sign of Jonah and Messiah being dead in the grave.
> In Jewish thought the heart of the earth is Jerusalem. Cross
> referencing this term in the Scriptures can show someone on the surface,
> as in a ship in the midst of the sea (Pro 30:19). Jonah was alive
> inside the whale although he felt like he was in Sheol. I think Messiah
> was prophetically telling the length of his ministry on earth as being
> three full years, from his initial cleansing of the temple in the first
> spring of his ministry to his final cleansing of the temple and his
> passion three years later. I had always wondered about Messiah telling
> his mother that his time had not come at the wedding in Cana of Galilee.
> His baptism in the fall was a preparation for the ministry that would
> begin the following spring. Others guess that the sign of Jonah
> referred to a three day period that encompassed the time that Messiah
> gave himself over into man's control. One the other side, Messiah
> clearly and repeatedly states that he was going to rise from the dead on
> the third day. I have found that fitting the 72 hours was forced and
> necessitated taking pieces from each Gospel rather than taking each
> Gospel account at face value. Apparent problems such as the women
> preparing spices before the Sabbath and buying spices after the Sabbath
> are understood as being separate events. Matthew 28: 1 had iced the 72
> hour belief for me; now I look at it given the weight of evidence on the
> other side and have to reconsider my previous understanding.
>
> Carl
>
> Allen Daves wrote:
>
>>You could have counted it that way, However, it plainly states "three
>>days" and "three nights" in the heart of .... The
>> key to understanding this is to relize that although you could have
>> reconed the time as Carl indicated here, if ther was no additional
>> information. Howerver this verse is plainly qualifiying what is ment. as
>> for the passover though it was a particular day the whole week was
>> considered part of the event, and festivities akin to the way that we
>> celibrate 12 days of Christmas, at lest we used to or "thanksgiving
>> week".
>>
>>Allen
>>
>>
>>>>earth.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>Robert Bennett wrote:
>>Cheryl,
>>
>>There are two things needed to compare our present method of measuring
>>time
>>with the Biblical Jews:
>>
>>The day was - and still is - measured from sundown to sundown - cf. the
>>first 6 days.
>>Any part of a day was considered a day - no division into hours, etc.
>>
>>>From 3 PM Friday to 7 AM Sunday we would term 40 hours, or less than 2
>>>days.
>>The Jews would reckon this as 3 days.
>>
>>Robert
>>
>>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: geocentrism-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>[mailto:geocentrism-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Cheryl
>>>Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 11:26 AM
>>>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Calendar query
>>>
>>>
>>>Allen -- I forgot about that verse. Do you have a way to harmonize this
>>>with the passages Carl cites? I'm sure they can be, but I don't
>>>know how to
>>>do it. Cheryl
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Allen Daves"
>>>To:
>>>Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 11:10 AM
>>>Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Calendar query
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Matthew 12: 39. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and
>>>>adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be
>>>>given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
>>>>40. For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>whale's belly; so
>>>
>>>
>>>>shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the
>>>>earth.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Carl -- I agree with you that Jesus was not in the grave for three days
>>>>but
>>>>rather a day or less.
>>>>
>>>>We celebrated Seder (sp?) at our church this year on Thursday before
>>>>Easter.
>>>>It was the first time I'd ever gone to one, and I loved it. We had no
>>>>choice but to celebrate it on the wrong date because it would make no
>>>>sense
>>>>to celebrate it after the Easter date ordained by, I guess, the Roman
>>>>Catholics. Cheryl
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Carl Felland"
>>>>To:
>>>>Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 5:38 PM
>>>>Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Calendar query
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Neville,
>>>>>
>>>>>The short answer is "No."
>>>>>
>>>>>My longer response is two-fold. First, that your thesis would
>>>>>necessitate the understanding that the New Moon is the Full Moon and
>>>>>second, that the Gospels do not show Messiah in the grave for
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>three days.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Passover and the first day of Unleavened Bread fall in the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>middle of the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>month on the 14th and 15th, respectively. Now, there is a very small
>>>>>group of people who argue that the New Moon is the Full Moon, which may
>>>>>allow your thesis. I can't see this as a possibility because of history
>>>>>and logic. History, as in dictionary definitions, shows the New Moon
>>>>>being firstly astonomical new moon and secondly a crescent moon.
>>>>>Logically, the two primary divisions of the moon's appearance
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>from earth
>>>
>>>
>>>>>are when it is visible and when it is not visible. The period when it
>>>>>is not visible is that unique period of time each month that I argue is
>>>>>a "month-end/beginning" holiday. The Full Moon is still important, but
>>>>>as the second sabbath of the month and being at the beginning of the
>>>>>pilgramage feasts of Unleavened Bread in the first month and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>Tabernacles
>>>
>>>
>>>>>in the seventh month.
>>>>>
>>>>>Concerning the Gospel accounts... In Mark 15: 42 "And now when the even
>>>>>was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the
>>>>>sabbath," we see Messiah's death and burial on the preparation, the day
>>>>>before the sabbath. Exodus 16:5 shows that the day before the weekly
>>>>>sabbath is a preparation. The next reference to sabbath is Mark 16: 1
>>>>>"And when the sabbath was past..." Logically, this would be the same
>>>>>sabbath that was referred to in Mark 15: 42. Compare also Luke 23: 54-
>>>>>24: 1.
>>>>>
>>>>>In Matthew 27: 62 "Now the next day, that followed the day of the
>>>>>preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>unto Pilate,"
>>>
>>>
>>>>>we see again the preparation and based on the above evidence the next
>>>>>day would be the sabbath. Continuing on to Matthew 28: 1 again we have
>>>>>the women going to the tomb after the sabbath on the first day of the
>>>>>week. [An alternately punctuated Matthew 27: 66 - Matthew 28: 1 as "So
>>>>>they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>setting a
>>>
>>>
>>>>>watch in the end of the sabbath. As it began to dawn toward the first
>>>>>[day] of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the
>>>>>sepulchre." may better hamonize the Gospels.] In John 19:31 "The Jews
>>>>>therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not
>>>>>remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an
>>>>>high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and [that]
>>>>>they might be taken away." The preparation was for a weekly sabbath
>>>>>day, that also happened to be an high day. In John 19: 42- 20: 1 again
>>>>>we see no gaps in the sequence of 1st day) preparation where death and
>>>>>burial occurred (Passover), 2nd day) sabbath in the grave (First day of
>>>>>Unleavened Bread), and 3rd day) first day of the week with resurrection
>>>>>(Wave Sheath offering). This sequence fits the resurrection on the
>>>>>third day as in Luke 24:46 "And said unto them, Thus it is written, and
>>>>>thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third
>>>>>day:"
>>>>>
>>>>>On another note, I found a error in my Biblical Calendar overview.
>>>>>Towards the end in the New Moon section the last sentence should read
>>>>>"The crescent may be easily visible after twenty four to thirty six
>>>>>hours depending on location, local conditions, lag time, etc."
>>>>>
>>>>>Carl
>>>>>
>>>>>Dr. Neville Jones wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Carl,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sorry, I meant the Sabbath on the 29th, which precedes the New
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>Moon, and
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>thus explains the gap before the "first day of the week."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yours in Christ,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Neville.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Dr. Neville Jones" wrote:
>>>>>>Carl,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In your opinion, is it possible that Christ's execution took
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>place on the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>day before a New Moon, thus explaining how he was in the memorial tomb
>>>>>>for
>>>>>>three days?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Neville.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Send instant messages to your online friends
>>>>>>http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>.
>>
>>
>>
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