[GeoStL] Re: Bogus MOGA logs-I have to admit, you had a good point

  • From: Max Frost <max.frost60@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:57:19 -0500

-
Interesting.  I've never been to a MOGA, but I have a question for you Mr.
MyOtis.  Have you been? When did you attend? What did you do to help? If it
has been the policy all along to let the volunteers log caches, then why did
you contribute the wrongness of it this year?  You went to Rend Lake and hid
how many caches?  Obviously, you didn't like the way it was handled or the
way the caches were hidden but you did go back after the fact and find some
of them. By logging them, you are contributing to the problem.  You should
really not log a cache you don't approve of or take credit for the find.

I'll ask a second question, other than complain, what have you done to
contribute to geocaching in the last 5 years?  I lurk on this list, don't
say anything and just watch.  You can learn a lot about people by just
watching.  You have a lot to say but little of it, if any, has been positive
about anything.  I see that in the logs you post and in your general
attitude toward geocaching in general.  You don't like the hides, and from
what I can tell, you don't like much of anything that anyone else does other
than you.  I am/was interested in Geocaching and may, someday, actually log
a cache that I've found.  I find them, read the logs but don't sign them and
don't log them at Geocaching.com. That isn't important to me.  Taking the
walk and finding the container is enough.  

I appreciate anyone who volunteers for anything and gives of themselves for
the betterment of anything. The people who spent their weekends either
hiding the caches or working the event did it because they wanted to. From
what I can tell, over 600 other people enjoyed the event.  I'm just glad you
are in the minority.
 
I'll ask you the same question that my father used to ask me:  "Who the hell
died and made you boss?"   

I think I've had enough of you on this list. You have the right to your
opinion, but I have the right not to have to listen to it. 

You can respond, but I'm unsubscribing as soon as I hit the enter button on
this message.  You are bringing me down.

-----Original Message-----
From: geocaching-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:geocaching-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim Bensman
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 2:26 PM
To: geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [GeoStL] Re: Bogus MOGA logs-I have to admit, you had a good point

-
Andrew

First I note while I was really surprised at how few people had signed the
logs, many of the MOGA staff were signing the logs instead of cheating to
claim them.  This is bigger than cachers cheating.  This is MOGA Staff and
maybe SLAGA??? sanctioning cheating.  The rules that are being violated are
not MOGA rules (you get disqualified if you do that) or SLAGA rules.  They
are the basic rules of Geocaching.  The caches were also paid for with our
tax dollars.  So you are comparing apples to oranges.  You boss does not
have the right to tell you that you don't have to pay taxes as a reward for
working for him.  When you are volunteering as an umpire, you don't have the
right to tell players they don't have to follow the rules if they pay you
money.

What gives MOGA Staff or even SLAGA the right to tell people they can cheat
if they pay a fee or volunteer? Can someone please let us know exactly who
it is that is telling people they can cheat in exchange for money or
volunteering (is SLAGA involved?  Who exactly is the "MOGA Staff" approving
the cheating)?  I would also like to know why they think they have the
authority to sanction claiming caches without finding them.  Why are not the
criteria of what you have to do in order for MOGA Staff to tell you can
cheat posted somewhere so all can see?  Mr. President went after Ed on this
list for apparently claiming MOGA caches that he did not find.  Was the
problem he did not pay his fee or was the issue he had not volunteered
enough to qualify to claim finds without finding them?  Or is it just
certain people can cheat in exchange for volunteering (I helped hide the
caches and no one told me I could cheat as a reward.)

Are you saying this is common practice or that MOGA volunteers are special
and privileged?  Is SLAGA authorizing people who help at events to go claim
all the nearby caches as a reward for volunteering?  Maybe things have
changed.  But this is the first time in almost 10 years of caching I have
ever seen cachers being told they can cheat in exchange for volunteering.
Back in the early days of caching I spent most of my times hiding caches and
had the most hides in the world for a while.  As a result, many cachers had
many more finds than me.  I never felt this made me special and above the
rules.  I have never claimed a cache for all the time I have spent giving to
caching.  

I am surprised at the indifference to how sanctioning cheating makes
MOGA/SLAGA and caching in general look.  It sounds like you don't care if
sanctioning cheating drives people away in disgust since you are replying to
a message where a cacher is basically saying this.  What kind of example
does sanctioning cheating set?  Look at all the work SLAGA does with scouts.
I can tell you the values I learned in scouting are not the values you and
others are expressing or that is being demonstrated by sanctioning cheating.
I spoke up about this because of the values I learning in scouting.  I hope
SLAGA stops having any activities with scouts as I don't want them to learn
the values I am seeing expressed.

Jim Bensman
"Nature Bats Last" 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: geocaching-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:geocaching-
> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andrew Senger
> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 11:54 PM
> To: geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [GeoStL] Re: Bogus MOGA logs-I have to admit, you had a good
> point
> 
> -
> Jim,
> 
> At my job, I'm allowed to eat for free from our restaurants because
> I'm an employee. For the summer baseball games I umpire, I'm allowed
> free food and water from the concession stand before and after the
> game. When you volunteer for events, you're given free shirts, food,
> and other swag. It's all a benefit of giving your time to the company
> or organization.
> 
> How is MOGA any different? Many of these volunteers spent countless
> hours getting MOGA ready for YOU. Most of them were busy the whole
> weekend to ensure YOU had a fun time and had caches to find; some of
> these people didn't have a chance AT ALL to even look for caches. Many
> of them were out weeks in advance placing some of the caches they
> weren't able to find later.
> 
> If you don't like the benefit the organizers gave the volunteers,
> that's fine -- you have the right to not like it. If you think you can
> run MOGA better, ask to run it next year. I'm sure Mr President would
> gladly hand over the position -- I've heard it pays well.
> 
> It's fine to have personal feelings about it, but there is NO reason
> to turn it into an attack on MOGA, its organizers, and (most
> importantly) the volunteers who spent their own time to make MOGA what
> it has become. Let me remind you that you have personally admitted to
> receiving the final coordinates for puzzle/mystery caches, then logged
> a find on the cache. Before you question someone else's way of playing
> the game, look at your own style first. Before you blame others of
> ruining the game, think about how your actions influence the game.
> 
> Frankly, I'm sick of your attitude toward everyone but yourself. If
> you don't like the way MOGA was run this year, don't return next year
> -- you may not be missed. If you don't like the quality of the caches
> in the area, or any area, then stop caching -- no one will notice. If
> you don't like SLAGA or the people involved, then leave the
> organization -- they might be better off without you. As long as
> people are having fun (and getting outside), why question the way they
> do it?
> 
> This game doesn't revolve around you.
> 
> Andrew Senger
> asenger@xxxxxxxxx
> 


 

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