I've noticed that a few of the more detailed responses are from staff at schools. I'd like to hear from the actual employers. If any of you have had anything to do with hiring at your companies, you should chime in and let us know if employers are looking at these specialty programs seriously. I'm very interested because a degree in 'video game programming' seems to be a fairly new thing and I wonder if it has begun having any bearing on the hiring process in the real world. Before you get mad, art institutes are a different beast and I would wager that having tool related skills from an art centric center could do nothing but help artists in the field. I am more curious about general programming schools. Though in all honesty, if I had the free time, those classes would be a total blast to take! Thanks, Jason -----Original Message----- From: gameprogrammer-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gameprogrammer-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Harrington, Tim Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 9:25 AM To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: GAME School Good points Kevin - I've worked with both schools (engineering and arts) - Individual skill sets are dominant drivers in student success regardless of the discipline. Kevin mentions SE vs. CS, or even GP. Software Engineering in the education world became the next evolution of Computer Science. Game Programming is much like a Technical Artist position in a Game company - not an artist - not a programmer : but the transitional technical specialist that is sorely needed in gaming and visual effects.=20 I have seen that the biggest challenge for schools has been finding secondary placement opportunities for graduates from game degrees. Average students seldom make it into the game industry. The demand for excellence is high as a great deal rides on the success of a title. Tristan - If you are looking at schools - look at a cross section of schools and programs. It is good to have the flexibility that UAT offers providing they have the critical mass of students to allow you true flexibility. In the Phoenix area you have at least three competent private post-secondary schools to consider: Us (The Art Institute of Phoenix), Collins College, and University of Advanced Technology (UAT). Evaluate the curriculum, instructors, facilities, student population, entry requirements, internships while attending school, part-time employment opps, and career placement services. Also evaluate the industry - look at the production pipeline and the numbers of team members on a production team that represent the various aspects of the pipeline. Art and design has the largest portion of the production team - it is the most labor intensive aspect of the line. Technical Art and effects is second - Programming 3rd. Then there is marketing - that's a whole other thing!! As Kevin has stated, think further into the future, if programming is going off-shore and game programming jobs are difficult to find, or hold, you will want to have broader skills in programming and software design. Good luck. -----Original Message----- From: gameprogrammer-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gameprogrammer-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kevin Jenkins Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 11:31 PM To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: GAME School I think a game programming school can be beneficial for a game programming job. But you might want to think farther ahead in your future. A degree in CS is a qualification for most programming jobs. If you wanted to work at Intel for example, the specific education you get for game programming probably won't give you as broad of a base as a CS or SE degree and they may not accept it as equivalent. Game programming can be great fun and a great job if you find a good company. Unfortunately, all but one of the companies that I have worked for treat programmers as... well programmers. The upper management didn't share the fun parts of making the game and didn't seriously consider any other group's input. This is probably how you will wind up, and in my opinion it doesn't make sense to work for such a company. Why assume the risk, low pay, long hours, and pressure of working for a game company without the fun part? Even if you find a good company, many jobs are being outsourced to the lowest bidder, such as India, Russia, etc. It's much harder to find a job than even a three years ago and what is left is less desirable. The path I took was to get a degree in SE, and at the same time teach myself what I needed to know to program games. I got enough fundamentals to get my first job. The only thing I would change if I could go back in time would be to pay more attention in certain of the classes I thought were useless at the time (esp. linear algebra and unix internals). I'm glad I didn't go to a game programming school, because with such poor job security I'm glad I have the credentials to work outside the gaming industry if I need to. ----- Original Message ----- From: "tristan drago" <tdrago19@xxxxxxxxx> To: <gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 10:59 PM Subject: [gameprogrammer] GAME School > I feel strong about going to UAT (university of technology) in tempe az. They give you an option between which classes you choose for your bachlors. for instance they offer both game desgin and game programming. Now i have the choice to select 70% game programming 30% game designing, i can do this also like 60-40 50-50 etc. Now I"ve been reasearching on becoming a game programmer for a couple of years now, ive decided to go for it. is there advice i can have about the class difficulty? and about the job in itself? anything please!......thankyou. ps. UAT seems like a good school....what you say? and should i just go 100% game programming? > > Tristan Drago --------------------- To unsubscribe go to http://gameprogrammer.com/mailinglist.html --------------------- To unsubscribe go to http://gameprogrammer.com/mailinglist.html --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.708 / Virus Database: 464 - Release Date: 6/18/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). 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