Re: [cpsig] Economics of replacing steam

  • From: "Doug Cummings" <DougCummings@xxxxxxx>
  • To: <cpsig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 13:50:20 -0800

You can continue the steam vs diesel debate until hell freezes over and never come to a conclusion. There are as many pro arguments as there are con arguments. When you compare brand new diesels with 50 year old steam locomotives and antiquated facilities it is easy to predict who will win out.

When you compare them on equal footing it is a lot more difficult. When they compared 1940's era steam with 1950's era diesels the diesels often didn't come out so well. This is one reason many railroads ran steam as long as they did, they finally had no choice but to dieselize when parts became harder and harder to get. When they dieselized in China and India it was more on the basis of politics than economics. Neither wanted to be seen as a "backward" country. When they compared steam and diesel in South Africa in the 1980's steam won, but they decided to dieselize anyway based on politics. They never bought any more diesels to do it, they just abandoned enough trackage to accomplish their goal.

Diesels have one advantage over steam, they develop a lot of tractive effort in the 0 to 1 mph speed range. After that it drops as the speed increases. Steam is the opposite, the fact is the faster they go the more power they develop. That's one reason three AC4400CW's can move a 10,000 ton freight but it will only be at about 40 to 50 mph, but it takes six of them to move a container train that is 1/4 of that tonnage at 75 mph.

If you look at CPR it was largely a branch line railroad until the 1960's. If a train need to be double headed that also meant they had a lot of tonnage, so that train was developing the revenue to justify two crews. If the CPR had developed a significant amount of long haul traffic much earlier they would have invested in larger steam locomotives, like many U.S. railroads did, and had locomotives that could do the work of two or three smaller ones and haul these same trains with one locomotive with one crew.

Foreign aid dieselized the railroads of a lot of third world countries. The World Bank only recently admitted that was one of their major failures. It ruined the economies of many countries, to this very day. These countries had people who could maintain steam, they had the fuel, and they were not dependent upon foreign exchange for parts or foreign countries for oil. When they dieselized they did not have local fuel source, nor did they have the skilled workers to maintain the diesels, or the foreign exchange to buy the parts. Many diesels ran until their first failure and were then parked and never ran again. It was easy to get new diesels every few years - thanks to foreign aid. If you looked at the diesel rosters of some railroads in these countries you thought they had an enormous railroad system. In reality it was the opposite. Lots of equipment, none of it operable. Even today you can read reports of railroads in many countries with yards full of sidetracked locomotives and cars. They don't have the money or the skilled people to put them back to work or buy the parts to do it.

What works in one location does not work in all locations. If you really want to go for efficiency then we would have electrified years ago. In many countries they did this years ago. May be one day we will wake up.

Politics is wonderful, if you listen to politicians things are always rosy. They tell you why we absolutely need to do this or that. They don't tell you about the cost overruns, or how they under estimated the costs, or the scandals and debts that inevitable and are going to result from their pet schemes. But they make everything look so good, at first. Then reality sets in. But it is too late.

Doug




re steam vs diesel
Interestingly, I was reading recently about the steam to diesel costs
in a switching operation in New York City and IIRC, daily costs were
between $20-21 for steam vs $3-4 for diesel.  It is likely  CP found
similar savings and the prime reason switchers were the first major
diesel purchase CP made.

Peter Bowers




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