Ray:
Thanks for answering part of my reply to you. What you chose not to reply to
is quite telling.
I'd guess nobody else really wants see this thread play out much further, and I
learned at least 30 years ago that e-mail spats are fruitless.
Certain realities of this group has been made quite clear to me, which I
appreciate. And to be honest I moved on after I hit "send."
Raising a virtual glass to all kinds of comic art and "comic art," including
those vast seas of badly drawn softcore porn. Vive la difference!
Mark Nevins
On Saturday, January 16, 2021, 01:56:18 PM EST, RAYMOND CUTHBERT
<rcuthber@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Hello Mark:
Your initial question regarding my post was "And this is related to comic art,
how?" The implication, as I understood it, was that you did not think
discussion of such artwork appropriate for the group.
I explained how James Martin was a comic book artist and that was the
connection.
In the post to which you are responding I pointed out some examples of how
limiting it would be to forego non-sequential drawings without a narrative from
our discussion.
Yes, I am the one who used the word "banned" - not you - but I was and am still
curious about why one would limit discussions about comic book artists to only
their comic book artwork.
To follow your counter-example in this setting, if a comic book artist were to
draw a baseball card and you bought the original art to that card, I would find
it an interesting point of discussion.
I thought this issue - which I believed you to raise - was a worthwhile point
of discussion.
Best wishes!- Ray Cuthbert
From: "Mark D. Nevins" <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "comicartl" <comicartl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Comicart-L" <comicart-l@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2021 12:33:20 PM
Subject: [comicart-l] Re: Art Days - James Martin!
Hi Ray:
Given the tone of your e-mail, I'm going to assume that you don't actually want
me to answer your questions. If you would in fact like me to, then just let me
know and I'd be happy to do so, either on-list or privately.
I was most struck in your post by your repeated, emphatic, and insistent use of
the word "banned." I'm not sure where you got that word from. I've never,
ever used that word here, nor have I ever even thought of it in this context.
To the contrary, in every one of my posts on this topic I've stipulated "I am
not interested in dictating anyone's preferences or collecting interests."
I suppose for me it comes down to respect and kindness. I'd expect that when a
group has a charter as clear as this one (i.e., comic art), people would
respect that. I may love baseball cards, and you may as well, but I'm not
going to insist on dragging my collection into the meetings of the Detective
Fiction Club.
Of course, I may be asking too much on the "respect and kindness" front from
this forum, having in the last 24 hours been groundlessly mischaracterized as
someone who seeks to censor others; told my opinion does not matter; and called
a pedant. So, as you note, there are indeed "multiple issues invoked in such a
discussion" but it really feels like some of them aren't welcome here. (Are
such issues formally banned here, or merely shouted down?)
Having basically been told to shut up on this topic I'll do so, and let others
go on celebrating, for example, adolescent unpublished drawings of naked
superheroines as "comic art." Though in the context of the recent comments on
Marston, Petty, and the problematics of "the male gaze," I wonder how exactly
today's naked Lois Lane drawing fits in....
The culture of this "freelists" comic art group is now clear to me. Can anyone
speak to whether the "groups.io" list might have a different ethos?
Mark Nevins
On Friday, January 15, 2021, 03:20:53 PM EST, RAYMOND CUTHBERT
<rcuthber@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Mark:
Let me ask you a few questions.
Many of the pieces in my collection include pieces like my Alex Raymond
illustrations which were done for non-comic venues.I have always thought of
them as comic-related artwork, even though they are not comic art. Should such
pieces be banned from discussion in this group?
I have recently commissioned Neal Adams to do portraits of several comic
artists. These are not comics since they are not sequential, nor do they mix
drawing with a narrative. Should such pieces be banned from discussion in
this group?
Malcolm recently commissioned Sanjulian to do a marvelous portrait of actor
Sean Connery based upon his role in THE UNTOUCHABLES. Should such pieces be
banned from discussion in this group?
Should paintings by Frank Frazetta done for pocketbook covers be banned for
discussion since they are not sequential, nor do they mix drawing with a
narrative?
Do you have objections to folks discussing comic artist convention sketches
which are clearly not "comic" art since they are not sequential, nor do they
mix drawing with a narrative?
Should sketches such as the ones you have posted by Julie Doucet or Roberta
Gregory be banned from discussion in this group since they are not sequential,
nor do they mix drawing with a narrative?
It seems to me that there are multiple issues invoked in such a discussion.
Best wishes!- Ray Cuthbert
From: "Mark Nevins" <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "comicartl" <comicartl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 12:24:16 PM
Subject: [comicart-l] Re: Art Days - James Martin!
Miki,
That’s a really superb collection of SF illustration art. Kudos!
(I’m a big Michael Whelan fan. Whatever happened to him? And Don Maitz too?)
Just to be clear: I love illustration art—my occasional complaint on this
mailing list notwithstanding. It’s just that illustration a different thing
than comic art. Comics are fundamentally about sequential narration.
Illustration is not. This is not a critique of anyone’s taste or collecting
preferences, it’s just a fact.
And yes, I certainly understand cases where “this is an illustration by a
comics artist,” but that’s not really the point. Michael Jordan played both
baseball and basketball professionally: that doesn’t mean those two sports have
anything in common. There are not many NBA players in Cooperstown.
Obviously I’ll deal with it. But I just really don’t see a place for painted
copies of photos of actresses in a comic art gallery, just as I wouldn’t see a
place for fresh vegetables or women’s clothing in a hardware store.
Sorry to be cranky. I guess for me it’s about signal-to-noise ratio. If I want
to look at comic art I’d rather not have to wade through not-comic-art to do
it.
Apparently I’m in the minority.
Cheers,Mark Nevins
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 15, 2021, at 12:37, Miki Annamanthadoo <mik1surf1@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Here’s the link to my illustration gallery in CAF
https://www.comicartfans.com/galleryroom.asp?gsub=155962
The first piece is legitimately comic art but I included it in the illustration
gallery because the artist is more recognized as an illustration artist.
Miki A
On Jan 15, 2021, at 11:04 AM, phillipdanielanderson@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
Is it officially cool to have an illustration section of your CAF now? I
missed that. I don’t have a ton, but am happy to put up what little I have.
On this specific topic. Cool piece Ray!
From: comicartl-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <comicartl-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf
Of yellowkd@xxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 7:02 AM
To: comicartl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [comicart-l] Re: Art Days - James Martin!
Besides Illustration is now a component of CAF including a lot of work by
illustrators who did not work in comics (and while there is a lot of crossover
there are also many who worked solely in illustration.) George
