[brailleblaster] Re: Thoughts and questions on views
- From: "John Gardner" <john.gardner@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <brailleblaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:17:30 -0800
Interesting, this is getting closer and closer to where conversations on
BrailleBlaster started. If BrailleBlaster is being used to translate and
make small corrections to an existing document, this functionality should be
just fine. If one is authoring a long document in BrailleBlaster, it could
be a bit annoying.
We didn't expect BrailleBlaster to be a full-featured authoring application,
so personally I think the functionality you describe is just fine.
John G
-----Original Message-----
From: brailleblaster-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:brailleblaster-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Keith Creasy
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 10:09
To: brailleblaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [brailleblaster] Re: Thoughts and questions on views
See my comments, KC-, below.
-----Original Message-----
From: brailleblaster-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:brailleblaster-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John J. Boyer
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 12:36 PM
To: brailleblaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [brailleblaster] Re: Thoughts and questions on views
How will the browser view get the information to show things in their
original context?
KC- That's a good question and one we need to solve. Basically it contains
the original document (DOM) with a CSS and XSLT applied. There is an update
method to move the browser selection to the context element.
I've always thought that print editing would be done in a wordprocessor
view. The layout would not mimic that of the Braille view. I just want to be
clear on where we will be doing editing.
KC- The short answer is, at least in this first cycle, editing is done in
the text view. Right now there is no "word processor" view. I think in the
long term we are going to want a browser-style view that is editable. We can
talk about whether or not we want some kind of text view that does not place
line breaks at the same places as those in the braille view. If we design it
right then adding views is easy. I suggest we start with the text and
braille views in line-by-line synchronization. In XML documents line length
is based on the view window anyhow so there are no hard line breaks in the
print to conflict with the ones in the braille view.
.
John B
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 05:27:01PM +0000, Keith Creasy wrote:
> John.
>
> Yes, it is a Browser view. Sorry for the confusion. It's just to allow
users to see everything in its oribinal context.
>
> View Plus has just mentioned a time or two that they'd like to overlap
text and braille. Beyond that there isn't much more to say. I'd just like to
keep things open to do that if they want to at some point. For now the text
and braille views accomplish the same thing just in side-by-side views
rather than them being overlapped.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: brailleblaster-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:brailleblaster-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John J.
> Boyer
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 12:23 PM
> To: brailleblaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [brailleblaster] Re: Thoughts and questions on views
>
> Hi Keith,
>
> There are a lot of things in your original reply that I will be thinking
about. I agree that it might be best to srart over with Documentmanager (or
DocumentClient).
>
> What is ViewPlus doing about editing print and Braille? If this is
proprietary information we might discuss it in the steering committee?
>
> I can understand a tree view, but why do we need an html view? Isn't it
more properly a browser view?
>
> John B
>
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 05:04:29PM +0000, Keith Creasy wrote:
> > Hmmm, that would be an interesting approach, make one of the views
transparent so the content could overlap in a clever way. It might work.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Keith Creasy
> > Software Developer
> > American Printing House for the Blind KCreasy@xxxxxxx
> > Phone: 502.895.2405
> > Skype: keith537
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: brailleblaster-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:brailleblaster-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John
> > Gardner
> > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 12:01 PM
> > To: brailleblaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [brailleblaster] Re: Thoughts and questions on views
> >
> > Hi Keith, John B mentioned a text+Braille view. This is something that
was discussed in the early planning stages of BrailleBlaster. But we
dropped it in favor of separate views. It would be nifty if the text view
and the Braille view could be superposed to show a "text+Braille" view - ie
the translation right above the Braille, something our users like. For
ViewPlus printer/embossers it would also be more or less what the final
output is.
> > As long as you are working on views, is it difficult to design them so
that this is possible? Ie to make the top view semi-transparaent and easy
to drag on top of the other?
> >
> > John G
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: brailleblaster-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:brailleblaster-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Keith
> > Creasy
> > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 08:20
> > To: brailleblaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [brailleblaster] Re: Thoughts and questions on views
> >
> > Hi John.
> >
> > Interesting. I'm working on views today. At least I'm reading through
the code and coming up with some strategies.
> >
> > I do like the idea of moving views to a package. Initially we have
potentially four views:
> >
> > TextView
> > BrailleView
> > TreeView
> > HtmlView
> >
> > I still want to attach the views to the document (DocumentBase) in some
way with a common interface so that new views can be added easily. That way
we can document exactly what someone would need to create a text/braille
view.
> > We don't plan to do that but View Plus may.
> >
> > Optionally we can attach DocumentManager to DocumentBase and let
DocumentManager manage connecting views. Document Manager also handles a
client view that represents the window area for a single document. WpManager
is going to create each of DocumentManager and hand off the client area that
DocumentManager and it's view widgets occupy. If we want to enable an MDI
then WmManager just changes wich instance of DocumentManager is displayed in
the client area.
> >
> > Also, because it's such a mess, I'd suggest that someone rename the
current DcocumentManager class DocumentManagerOld or something and start
over.
> > There's a lot in there that can be copied and used in the new
DocumentManager but in trying to comb through it and decide what should stay
and what should go I think starting over with the original as a reference is
simpler. In fact, what about renaming it DocumentClient? It is mostly a view
of sorts.
> >
> > Here are my notes so far, they are not complete:
> >
> > WpManager class:
> >
> > This is the main entry point for BB. It doesn't do much right now but
I'm proposing that it do a bit more.
> >
> > 1. Sets up main application window, menu, toolbar, andclient area.
> > 2. Handles File/New and File/Recent command, most Window commands.
> > 3. Creates a DocumentManager instance when a new document is created.
> >
> > DocumentManager class (maybe renamed to DocumentClient?):
> >
> > 1. fills the client area of WpManager. The client frame contains any
views to the document.
> > 2. Creates an instance of DocumentBase and any views that need to be
attached.
> > 3. Handles most file commands; i.e. Open, Save, Save As,Export, Import,
etc.
> >
> >
> > Views:
> >
> > All views are derived from AbstractView. This is so that all can have
certain methods that are required for interfacing with the document and so
that the document can update them when necessary. Does it make sense for
each view to create it's own font? We definitely want to avoid code in
DocumentManager that is specific to a particular view; i.e. DocumentManager
knows how to create a BrailleView and put it somewhere but nothing more.
> >
> > Keith Creasy
> > Software Developer
> > American Printing House for the Blind KCreasy@xxxxxxx
> > Phone: 502.895.2405
> > Skype: keith537
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: brailleblaster-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:brailleblaster-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John J.
> > Boyer
> > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 10:42 AM
> > To: brailleblaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [brailleblaster] Thoughts and questions on views
> >
> > First, whatever APH and ViewaPlus want to do about view is fine with me.
> >
> > It seems that we are considering four views, a tree view, a browser or
htmml view a combined Braille-and-print view and a word processor view.
> > Do we want the last view? Editing can be done in the braille-and-print
view.
> > If we don't want a wordprocessor view we con't have to worry about
styles, because the layout of the print in the print-Braille view will mimic
that of the Braille. Perhaps we should change the architecture to have an
org.brailleblaster.views package and within this package subpackages for
each view, brailleprintview, treeview, browserview and wordprocessorview.
> >
> > John
> >
> > --
> > John J. Boyer; President, Chief Software Developer Abilitiessoft, Inc.
> > http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> > Madison, Wisconsin USA
> > Developing software for people with disabilities
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> John J. Boyer; President, Chief Software Developer Abilitiessoft, Inc.
> http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> Madison, Wisconsin USA
> Developing software for people with disabilities
>
>
--
John J. Boyer, Executive Director
GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
http://www.godtouches.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Peace, Love, Service
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