actually those were a few years before my time so I only remember hearing
about them. I didn't really think about them but I guess they were the first
time candidates debated on TV.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Ventura
Sent: Sunday, April 3, 2016 3:32 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard
Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
Don't forget the Kennedy-Nixon debates.
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Charles Krugman
Sent: Sunday, April 3, 2016 12:34 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard
Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
well they have said that the whole campaigning has changed after Nixon was
elected tohis first term when much of the campaigning relied very heavily on
the use of television. It has changed the whole method of campaigning and
message delivery.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Miriam Vieni
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 6:48 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard
Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
I hadn't read about people criticizing his style, although I have read
criticisms of Hillary's style. But the criticisms of style are a function of
contemporary society in which superficial characteristics and appearance
appear to be more important to people than substance. The emphasis on it
came with TV and with the advertising industries, public relations, becoming
predominant in campaigning. There's nothing slick or glossy or youthful or
modern about Sanders.
Miriam
________________________________
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Charles Krugman
(Redacted sender "ckrugman" for DMARC)
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 6:04 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard
Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
Sanders has to take some responsibility for marginalizing himself by this
method of presentation. At times he comes across as abrasive and smarky in a
manner that does not set well with many rank and file voters that I have
contact with. and again I am not talking about party activists or diehard
Hillary supporters. I realize that Sanders is down for his cause but he
might get more support using honey instead of vinegar.
Chuck
From: Alice Dampman Humel <mailto:alicedh@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 3:34 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard
Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
He's already been so incredibly and infuriatingly marginalized by the media
even as a Democrat.just imagine if he were out of that arena all by himself
as an independent.he wouldn't even be on the radar screen. They treat him
like a cute child, trotting out his naive little ideas for the grownups.
Hardly anyone ever speaks of him as the democratic candidate that will run
against the Republicrap. They have not taken him seriously.just as on the
flip side, no one took Trump seriously, and look what a monster has been
created.1930s Germany, anyone? No one took that little madman seriously,
either.and look what happened. Well, Santayana said it best, and here we
still are, running on that old hamster wheel in our big cage.
On Mar 25, 2016, at 6:07 PM, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Because, if he had run as an inependent, no one would have heard his ideas.
He would have gotten absolutely no coverage in the Media. There would have
been no debates, no discussion at all, to move the party to the left aside
from Elizabeth Warren. And Warren can't do it alone. No one whom I've asked
here on Long Island, has a clue as to who Jill Stein is. Lately, they at
least have heard that Sanders is running and that there's an alternative to
Clinton. I haven't talked to one person who plans to vote for Clinton. I
have talked to some who plan not to vote at all because they don't know that
there's any alternative to her and I've met a few Trump supporters.
What I
fervently hope is that if Hillary wins the nomination, the movement that
Sanders has started will continue to work for change and that he will
continue to be part of that movement and, perhaps, work jointly with Jill
Stein.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Frank Ventura
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 5:24 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard
Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
Carl, yes your cynicism detecter is belting out Stairway to Heaven.
I agree
with all you have said below and you can even substitute Stein for Sanders
in the parts about the ruling class and their political assasinations. Even
more to the point if the Democratic party is so evil to some folks why is
there no outcry from those very same folks for Sanders to leave the party
and run as an independent... Hmmm... Maybe they have use for those "party
loyalists" that they piss upon after all.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 10:38 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard
Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
My my my, Frank. Do I detect just a whisper of cynicism?
Nonetheless, tomorrow I will trot off to the Quilcene high school to
participate in our caucus and cast my lot with Bernie Sanders. And when we
get past the Democratic Party freezing Sanders out, I will most probably go
fishing during the general election.
So far as I'm concerned, the Democratic Party is the Republican Party.
The last time I went Democrat and voted for a moderate, he turned out to be
a corporate man in a dark skin. So I voted for Jill Stein in the
2012
election. And we did not wind up with some crazy Republican.
We wound up with an inept Democrat. But worse than that, Obama has the
blood of thousands...maybe millions, of innocent people on his Liberal
hands.
Which brings me back to my vote for Bernie. My vote for Bernie Sanders is a
Fool's Mission. If he did manage to win the Brass Ring, he would find
himself in exactly the same place Barak Obama is in.
And I don't mean the Oval Office. I mean he would find himself facing a
solid block of Sanders haters. Bernie has the entire Ruling Class waiting
to chew him up. Even his careful avoidance of any plan to disengage from
our foolish wars, will not save him. Indeed, within days of swearing to God
and All, he will be forced to stand by, while more drones go fluttering off
to the Killing Fields, the playgrounds of Muslim children.
We can continue sacrificing our fellow men and women to the service of this
Corporate Capitalist Empire, only to watch them cave in or be chewed up and
spat out. It's the system that must be changed. We working class folks
have been frozen out of real participation for many years...maybe forever.
But in order to form a new and more inclusive government, we will need to
figure out what to do with the one that is in our way. And sending Bernie
into the ring is not the answer. So, while I feel I have no stake in this
game, I'll vote for Bernie Sanders because it is my way of making a small,
quiet protest to the two-headed monster that keeps all the marbles in the
hands of the Ruling Class.
Carl Jarvis
On 3/24/16, Frank Ventura <frank.ventura@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Chuck, while I did vote for Sanders in the primary, I am already regretting
it. Sadly, Sanders is starting to sound more and more like Jill Stein; that
is someone who merely wants to derail the democratic party and put a
Republican in the oval office out of some sort of protest. The sad truth is
that after Stein and Sanders get their jollies with their protest against
the mainstream Democratic party they will go back to their comfy suburban
homes and sit back with a glass of wine; while the rest of us working class
suffer the onslaught of President Trump or President Cruz and all the
horrors for our nation that it has brought. So a year from now when
President Trump's death squads are roaming the streets killing the working
class Bernie and Jill will be sitting back watching it all on Foxnews while
their
private security forces guard their nicely manicured lawns.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Charles Krugman
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 2:00 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard
Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
Miriam, in 2008 you voted for a typical Chicago politician.
Spending
time in Chicago growing up in the sixties I found the political machine in
power fascinating. My problem is that I just don't like or agree with Bernie
Sanders and don't believe he is electable nor does he possess the image of
an American president. While There are lots of things I didn't like about
the Clinton Administration and I believe that Hillary was an active
participant in the decisionmaking process and since I don't support the
extreme principles of third parties I feel that in this election I'm voting
for the lesser of the evils. I guess that there is still part of me that
buys in to the capitalistic
mentality.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Miriam Vieni
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 11:43 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard
Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
I live in New York which, probably, will continue to be a blue state.
However, whatever kind of state it is, my vote, if Bernie isn't the
Democratic candidate, will go to Jill Stein. It won't go to Trump and it
won't go to the Clinton machine. In 2008, I thought I was voting for a
Democratic candidate who represented the values in which I believed. I knew
that he was a bit to the right in terms of Afghanistan, but I tought he was
a Liberal Democrat who believed in the rule of law, in open government. I
discovered that I'd voted for an opportunist, an elitist, for a President
who would ignore the constitution whenever it got in the way of his
appeasement of the security state, of a President who was ready to cut
social security benefits, and who made unacceptable bargains with
Republicans before it was necessary to do so. And he is the more
Ppogressive of the two.
If I vote for Hillary, I'd be voting for someone whose Neo Liberal policies
are more warlike, who is even more comfortable with the elites, who will
increase the US appeasement of Israel, whose concern about African Americans
is pure fiction, and who uses her femaleness as a means to gain support from
femininsts. I can't, in good
consciience do it. No, I don't want Trump as President. But the fact that
Clinton uses whatever words , she thinks, will get votes from the Democratic
base, doesn't reassure me. I listened to Robert Sheer's discussion with
Thomas Frank this morning on an audio clip on Truthdig. Are you aware that
Bill Clinton was about to privatize social security? What stopped him? The
Monica Lewinsky scandal. These
Democrats, aside from social issues, LGBT rights, abortion rights, are not
anymore the party of the working people.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Charles Krugman
(Redacted sender "ckrugman" for DMARC)
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 2:07 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard
Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
whether we might like it or not any vote that doesn't go to Hillary
including those on principle to minor candidates could very strongly result
in the trump presidency that no thinking person wants.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Miriam Vieni
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 8:21 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard
Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
Well, voting for Clinton means voting for more of what we have now which
means more wealth going to the 1%, more power for trans national
corporations, larger even less regulated banks, and an escalation of war.
Voting for trump may very well mean and out and out war at home on
minorities along with what I outlined above. One can't tell what Trump will
actdually do in terms of international policy because his statements are
contradictory. I caught a short interview with the author of a biography of
Trump on NPR last night. Briefly, he said Trump never reads books, does not
focus on one subject when you talk with him, but thinks just the way he
sounds in his speeches, and his basically and ego maniac, although he didn't
use that term.
I can't
visualize myself voting for Hillary because I can't think of any positives
in her favor. But certainly, the prospect of a Trump Presidency
is unthinkable.
Miriam
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 10:27 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard
Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
As the World turns...so turn firm resolves.
Of course it's early yet, but winning the primary appears to be slipping
from the old, experienced hands of Senator Bernie Sanders.
To date I have held to my resolve to vote for Sanders, and then if he does
not win the Party nomination, to vote for Jill Stein, of the Green
Party.
But that was before the Republicans trotted out their Party's Best, the
Clown Crew.
And, as we all guffawed and chuckled over their noisy sideshow, an awful
thing happened. One of the clowns began to look like something out of the
1940's. A full blown Fascist!
Ranting and raving and telling one big lie after another, Donald Trump rose
like the Phoenix, out of the ashes of the Third Reich.
Despite the Republican Party's denial that he has the popular Party support,
Trump stomps about, stirring up the rank and file, and winning in state
after state.
We now are upon the brink of National disaster. One direction leads to a
Fascist State, and the other leads to a Corporate State. And we have only
ourselves to blame.
If the choice comes down to Clinton or Trump, or even Clinton or Cruz, we
will need to decide if we hold to our original plan to support Stein, or to
"throw away" our vote in an effort to block the takeover of our emerging
Corporate State by the Fascist State. What a choice!
Just a fair warning that I am not ruling out a vote for Hillary Clinton.
Carl Jarvis
On 3/16/16, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Published on Alternet (http://www.alternet.org) Home
Trump andClinton's Big Night Poses Hard Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters ________________________________________
Trump andClinton's Big Night Poses Hard Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
