OK, so are you planning to install a president without going through the
electoral process? How many AR15s do you have in your arsenal? This is the same
thing you hear from those crazy militias?
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 10:07 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard
Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
If you have a viable plan to win a bourgeois election rigged by the bourgeoisie
for the bourgeoisie then you are only committed to the bourgeoisie, not the
working class. If you are committed to the working class you will lead them
away from the bourgeois electoral system to organize independently. That may
mean running candidates for propaganda purposes, but it does not mean planning
to win the election so that you can administer the bourgeois state for the
bourgeoisie. Fuck the bourgeois elections!
On 3/24/2016 9:38 PM, Frank Ventura wrote:
Miriam, the problem here is that, as you said yourself, Jill stein (and sadly
probably Sanders as well) doesn't have a chance of winning. You can't be
committed to the working class, or anyone else for that matter, if you don't
have a viable plan to win an election. Just running to be a spoiler doesn't
make you committed to the working class. As far as not knowing them, you are
being very presumptious about that. In reality I have a 7 degrees of
separation thing personaly with Sanders and although I generally like the guy
he still is a political machine; not exactally one of us, if there is really
anything as "us" left.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Miriam ;
Vieni
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 6:40 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses
Hard Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
I think you are doing a disservice to both Sanders and Stein, probably
because you haven't read anything about who they really are or their actual
lives. The question is, who is it who is actually committed to working
people and middle class people. The Democratic Party Establishment, funded by
Wall Street and corporations, and represented by Hillary Clinton worth
millions and millions of dollars, talks the talk, but does not walk the walk.
There are Progressive Democrats, but even they are limited by the party
establishment. If they don't tow the party line, they lose party funding. The
Party didn't even give support to unions. The party has been good on LBGT
rights and a woman's right to choose. They've been good on voter rights
although from all I've been reading lately, the voting machines are so easily
hackable, that it may not matter whom one votes for if there is a Republican
in charge of voting in one's state. But I have a Democratic Congress woman
and she, and the one before her, have voted against the interests of the
people just about every time. And one of my Democratic Senators, Chuck
Schumer, is no friend of the working man either. Hillary was on the board of
Walmart. The fact that the Republicans are religious fascists, doesn't
justify what the Democrats have been doing to immigrants, to people of color,
to poor people, to working people and, in case you have forgotten, to blind
people. Sservices for the blind are not what they were.
All of you competent, employed, tech savvy people seem to have forgotten
about the less well favored blind folks. As chuck said, his life is
comfortable. It's an American white middle class attitude. But in fact, all
of us are damaged when huge numbers of our people are damaged and Americans
are in danger when the rest of the world's population is in danger. There are
no perfect candidates. But for honesty and integrity, I'd choose bernie or
Jill over Hillary any day.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Frank ;
Ventura
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 4:08 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses
Hard Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
Chuck, while I did vote for Sanders in the primary, I am already regretting
it. Sadly, Sanders is starting to sound more and more like Jill Stein; that
is someone who merely wants to derail the democratic party and put a
Republican in the oval office out of some sort of protest. The sad truth is
that after Stein and Sanders get their jollies with their protest against the
mainstream Democratic party they will go back to their comfy suburban homes
and sit back with a glass of wine; while the rest of us working class suffer
the onslaught of President Trump or President Cruz and all the horrors for
our nation that it has brought. So a year from now when President Trump's
death squads are roaming the streets killing the working class Bernie and
Jill will be sitting back watching it all on Foxnews while their private
security forces guard their nicely manicured lawns.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Charles ;
Krugman
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 2:00 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses
Hard Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
Miriam, in 2008 you voted for a typical Chicago politician. Spending time in
Chicago growing up in the sixties I found the political machine in power
fascinating. My problem is that I just don't like or agree with Bernie
Sanders and don't believe he is electable nor does he possess the image of an
American president. While There are lots of things I didn't like about the
Clinton Administration and I believe that Hillary was an active participant
in the decisionmaking process and since I don't support the extreme
principles of third parties I feel that in this election I'm voting for the
lesser of the evils. I guess that there is still part of me that buys in to
the capitalistic mentality.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Miriam Vieni
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 11:43 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses
Hard Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
I live in New York which, probably, will continue to be a blue state.
However, whatever kind of state it is, my vote, if Bernie isn't the
Democratic candidate, will go to Jill Stein. It won't go to Trump and it
won't go to the Clinton machine. In 2008, I thought I was voting for a
Democratic candidate who represented the values in which I believed. I knew
that he was a bit to the right in terms of Afghanistan, but I tought he was a
Liberal Democrat who believed in the rule of law, in open government. I
discovered that I'd voted for an opportunist, an elitist, for a President who
would ignore the constitution whenever it got in the way of his appeasement
of the security state, of a President who was ready to cut social security
benefits, and who made unacceptable bargains with Republicans before it was
necessary to do so. And he is the more Ppogressive of the two. If I vote for
Hillary, I'd be voting for someone whose Neo Liberal policies are more
warlike, who is even more comfortable with the elites, who will increase the
US appeasement of Israel, whose concern about African Americans is pure
fiction, and who uses her femaleness as a means to gain support from
femininsts. I can't, in good consciience do it. No, I don't want Trump as
President. But the fact that Clinton uses whatever words , she thinks, will
get votes from the Democratic base, doesn't reassure me. I listened to Robert
Sheer's discussion with Thomas Frank this morning on an audio clip on
Truthdig. Are you aware that Bill Clinton was about to privatize social
security? What stopped him? The Monica Lewinsky scandal. These Democrats,
aside from social issues, LGBT rights, abortion rights, are not anymore the
party of the working people.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Charles ;
Krugman (Redacted sender "ckrugman" for DMARC)
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 2:07 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses
Hard Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
whether we might like it or not any vote that doesn't go to Hillary including
those on principle to minor candidates could very strongly result in the
trump presidency that no thinking person wants.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Miriam Vieni
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 8:21 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses
Hard Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
Well, voting for Clinton means voting for more of what we have now which
means more wealth going to the 1%, more power for trans national
corporations, larger even less regulated banks, and an escalation of war.
Voting for trump may very well mean and out and out war at home on minorities
along with what I outlined above. One can't tell what Trump will actdually do
in terms of international policy because his statements are contradictory. I
caught a short interview with the author of a biography of Trump on NPR last
night. Briefly, he said Trump never reads books, does not focus on one
subject when you talk with him, but thinks just the way he sounds in his
speeches, and his basically and ego maniac, although he didn't use that term.
I can't visualize myself voting for Hillary because I can't think of any
positives in her favor. But certainly, the prospect of a Trump Presidency is
unthinkable.
Miriam
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 10:27 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses
Hard Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
As the World turns...so turn firm resolves.
Of course it's early yet, but winning the primary appears to be slipping from
the old, experienced hands of Senator Bernie Sanders.
To date I have held to my resolve to vote for Sanders, and then if he does
not win the Party nomination, to vote for Jill Stein, of the Green Party.
But that was before the Republicans trotted out their Party's Best, the Clown
Crew.
And, as we all guffawed and chuckled over their noisy sideshow, an awful
thing happened. One of the clowns began to look like something out of the
1940's. A full blown Fascist!
Ranting and raving and telling one big lie after another, Donald Trump rose
like the Phoenix, out of the ashes of the Third Reich.
Despite the Republican Party's denial that he has the popular Party support,
Trump stomps about, stirring up the rank and file, and winning in state after
state.
We now are upon the brink of National disaster. One direction leads to a
Fascist State, and the other leads to a Corporate State. And we have only
ourselves to blame.
If the choice comes down to Clinton or Trump, or even Clinton or Cruz, we
will need to decide if we hold to our original plan to support Stein, or to
"throw away" our vote in an effort to block the takeover of our emerging
Corporate State by the Fascist State. What a choice!
Just a fair warning that I am not ruling out a vote for Hillary Clinton.
Carl Jarvis
On 3/16/16, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Published on Alternet (http://www.alternet.org) Home > Trump andTrump.
Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard Questions For Sanders Campaign and His
Youthful Supporters ________________________________________
Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard Questions For Sanders
Campaign and His Youthful Supporters By Steven Rosenfeld [1] /
AlterNet [2] March 15, 2016 Bernie Sanders' historic and
expectation-surpassing bid for the Democratic presidential nomination
ran into hard reality in several pivotal primary contests Tuesday,
where he could not break Hillary Clinton's hold on voters in several
critical battleground states needed to win in the fall-notably Ohio
and Florida.
While Sanders supporters will point to his narrow victory in
Missouri, and overwhelming support among independents who voted in
the Democratic primary, Clinton's victories in those fall
battleground states-as well as South Carolina and Illinois-means that
it is virtually impossible for Sanders to win the delegates needed
[3] for the party's nomination. That fact undoubtedly will take days
to seep into his remarkable grassroots campaign, where it remains to
be seen how Sanders will continue his quest or align himself with
Clinton-who he's criticized for some stances but praised as a person of
integrity.
The backdrop for that as-yet unknown calculation is the deeply
disconcerting continuing rise of Donald Trump toward the Republican
nomination, who has continued to amass a delegate lead-winning in
Florida, Illinois, South Carolina and Missouri. Although Ohio Gov.
John Kasich beat Trump in his home state, his first victory on 2016,
his chances-based on the GOP's delegate nomination math-are an even
longer shot than Sanders catching up with Clinton and wresting the
nomination. Under the current Republican National Committee rules, a
candidate needs to have won at least eight states to have their name
placed in nomination for the presidency. That renders Kasich's pledge
to supporters that he will win this fall as little more than campaign
magical thinking.
"Only one campaign has beaten Donald Trump over and over and over again,"
said Sen. Ted Cruz, also striking a defiant tone despite losing in
every state Tuesday, including by several thousand votes in Missouri
to
Cruz recited his pledge to recast the federal government andTuesday's results.
judiciary in the most ideological right-wing mold possible, go after
enemies abroad, and said he was the only alternative to Trump.
"Starting tomorrow morning, there is a clear choice," Cruz said,
posturing before supporters in Texas.
Trump's victory in Florida prompted Marco Rubio to suspend his
campaign, telling his backers that it was not in "God's plans" for
him to win "in
2016
or maybe ever." He also implored Republicans to reject the hateful
politics pedaled by Trump, saying, "I ask the American people, 'Do
not give into the fear. Do not give into the frustration.'"
Tuesday's top two storylines-Trump's rise and Clinton all-but ending
Sanders' chances of winning sufficient delegates to be the
nominee-came together in her remarks, where she underscored that she
had won fair and square but tried to reach out to Sanders' team. "Our
campaign has won more votes than any other campaign-Democrat or
Republican," began Clinton, in remarks from Palm Beach, "and I want
to congratulate Sen. Sanders for the vigorous campaign he has waged."
Clinton said she needed the support of Democrats across the country,
and then focused on Trump but cited many issues raised by Sanders.
"Tonight, it is clearer than ever that this may be one of the most
consequential campaigns of our lifetimes," she said. "The next
president will walk into the oval office next year in January, and
sit down at that desk, and start making decisions that will affect
the lives and the livelihoods of everyone in this country and indeed,
everyone on this planet."
Clinton said the next president has three major challenges: making
positive differences in people's lives, keeping America safe and
bringing the country together. The first example she gave was a
direct nod to Sanders and his popularity with voters under age 35.
"Young people across America struggling under the weight of student
debt find it difficult to imagine the futures they want," she said,
"and they deserve a president who will relieve them of that burden
and help future generations go to college without borrowing a dime."
Clinton continued with another issue that he raised first. "And you
know grandparents who worry about retirement deserve a president who
will protect and then expand Social Security for those who need it
most-not cut or privatize it."
Her to-do list continued: affordable child care; paid family leave;
equal pay for equal work for women; good jobs with rising incomes-in
construction, manufacturing, small business and renewable energy;
standing up for workers and the middle class-"not China, not Wall
Street and not overpaid corporate executives." She said that she
knows how to make these promises become realities, and then slammed
Trump, especially his anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim stances, and his
embrace of torture and threatening adversaries.
"That doesn't make him strong, it makes him wrong," she said.
"We have to take on all forms of inequality and discrimination,"
Clinton said. "Together, we have to defend all of our rights-civil
rights and voting rights; worker's rights and women's rights; LGBT
rights and rights for people with disabilities. And that starts with
standing with President Obama when he nominates a justice to the
Supreme Court."
Whether or not Sanders' supporters will buy Clinton's words and see
how much he has sharpened her embrace and articulation of a
progressive agenda remains to be seen. There is no doubt that the
short-term messaging from the Sanders' campaign will be that they
will keep plowing ahead and fight for delegates in the remaining
states. As of Tuesday, half the states have voted. The math has
Clinton with 300 more [3] pledged delegates than Sanders. That is not
counting super-delegates, the elected officers and party officials,
where she has 427 to his 26 [3]. Sanders reportedly spent
$12 million in ads for Tuesday's contests, compared to Clinton's $7
million.
Many of Sanders' supporters have not been involved in political
campaigns before, and will have a hard time immediately processing
But there are some big unanswered questions about what is next fortogether.
them in 2016-and what Clinton will also do to bring these two
campaigns
Sanders has taken positions that appeal to the disaffected voters whoCitizen's Guide to Voting"
have been drawn in by Trump and Cruz. One can only hope that the
Democratic Party knows it will need the millions of young economic
progressives to turn out in November. And they may not unless they
have a candidate they can believe in.
Steven Rosenfeld covers national political issues for AlterNet,
including America's retirement crisis, democracy and voting rights,
and campaigns and elections. He is the author of "Count My Vote: A
(AlterNet Books, 2008).Trump.
Share on Facebook Share
Share on Twitter Tweet
Report typos and corrections to 'corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx'. [4]
[5]
________________________________________
Source URL:
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/trump-and-clintons-big-night-po
s es-har d-questions-sanders-campaign-and-his-youthful
Links:
[1] http://www.alternet.org/authors/steven-rosenfeld
[2] http://alternet.org
[3]
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/primary-calendar
-
and-re
sults.html?action=click&contentCollection=Election%202016&reg
i
on=Foo
ter&module=WhatsNext&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNex
t &m oduleDetail=undefined&pgtype=Multimedia
[4] mailto:corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=Typo on Trump and ;
Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard Questions For Sanders Campaign and His
Youthful Supporters [5] http://www.alternet.org/ [6] ;
http://www.alternet.org/%2Bnew_src%2B
Published on Alternet (http://www.alternet.org) Home > Trump and
Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard Questions For Sanders Campaign and His
Youthful Supporters
Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard Questions For Sanders
Campaign and His Youthful Supporters By Steven Rosenfeld [1] /
AlterNet [2] March 15, 2016 Bernie Sanders' historic and
expectation-surpassing bid for the Democratic presidential nomination
ran into hard reality in several pivotal primary contests Tuesday,
where he could not break Hillary Clinton's hold on voters in several
critical battleground states needed to win in the fall-notably Ohio
and Florida.
While Sanders supporters will point to his narrow victory in
Missouri, and overwhelming support among independents who voted in
the Democratic primary, Clinton's victories in those fall
battleground states-as well as South Carolina and Illinois-means that
it is virtually impossible for Sanders to win the delegates needed
[3] for the party's nomination. That fact undoubtedly will take days
to seep into his remarkable grassroots campaign, where it remains to
be seen how Sanders will continue his quest or align himself with
Clinton-who he's criticized for some stances but praised as a person of
integrity.
The backdrop for that as-yet unknown calculation is the deeply
disconcerting continuing rise of Donald Trump toward the Republican
nomination, who has continued to amass a delegate lead-winning in
Florida, Illinois, South Carolina and Missouri. Although Ohio Gov.
John Kasich beat Trump in his home state, his first victory on 2016,
his chances-based on the GOP's delegate nomination math-are an even
longer shot than Sanders catching up with Clinton and wresting the
nomination. Under the current Republican National Committee rules, a
candidate needs to have won at least eight states to have their name
placed in nomination for the presidency. That renders Kasich's pledge
to supporters that he will win this fall as little more than campaign
magical thinking.
"Only one campaign has beaten Donald Trump over and over and over again,"
said Sen. Ted Cruz, also striking a defiant tone despite losing in
every state Tuesday, including by several thousand votes in Missouri
to
Cruz recited his pledge to recast the federal government andTuesday's results.
judiciary in the most ideological right-wing mold possible, go after
enemies abroad, and said he was the only alternative to Trump.
"Starting tomorrow morning, there is a clear choice," Cruz said,
posturing before supporters in Texas.
Trump's victory in Florida prompted Marco Rubio to suspend his
campaign, telling his backers that it was not in "God's plans" for
him to win "in
2016
or maybe ever." He also implored Republicans to reject the hateful
politics pedaled by Trump, saying, "I ask the American people, 'Do
not give into the fear. Do not give into the frustration.'"
Tuesday's top two storylines-Trump's rise and Clinton all-but ending
Sanders' chances of winning sufficient delegates to be the
nominee-came together in her remarks, where she underscored that she
had won fair and square but tried to reach out to Sanders' team. "Our
campaign has won more votes than any other campaign-Democrat or
Republican," began Clinton, in remarks from Palm Beach, "and I want
to congratulate Sen. Sanders for the vigorous campaign he has waged."
Clinton said she needed the support of Democrats across the country,
and then focused on Trump but cited many issues raised by Sanders.
"Tonight, it is clearer than ever that this may be one of the most
consequential campaigns of our lifetimes," she said. "The next
president will walk into the oval office next year in January, and
sit down at that desk, and start making decisions that will affect
the lives and the livelihoods of everyone in this country and indeed,
everyone on this planet."
Clinton said the next president has three major challenges: making
positive differences in people's lives, keeping America safe and
bringing the country together. The first example she gave was a
direct nod to Sanders and his popularity with voters under age 35.
"Young people across America struggling under the weight of student
debt find it difficult to imagine the futures they want," she said,
"and they deserve a president who will relieve them of that burden
and help future generations go to college without borrowing a dime."
Clinton continued with another issue that he raised first. "And you
know grandparents who worry about retirement deserve a president who
will protect and then expand Social Security for those who need it
most-not cut or privatize it."
Her to-do list continued: affordable child care; paid family leave;
equal pay for equal work for women; good jobs with rising incomes-in
construction, manufacturing, small business and renewable energy;
standing up for workers and the middle class-"not China, not Wall
Street and not overpaid corporate executives." She said that she
knows how to make these promises become realities, and then slammed
Trump, especially his anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim stances, and his
embrace of torture and threatening adversaries.
"That doesn't make him strong, it makes him wrong," she said.
"We have to take on all forms of inequality and discrimination,"
Clinton said. "Together, we have to defend all of our rights-civil
rights and voting rights; worker's rights and women's rights; LGBT
rights and rights for people with disabilities. And that starts with
standing with President Obama when he nominates a justice to the
Supreme Court."
Whether or not Sanders' supporters will buy Clinton's words and see
how much he has sharpened her embrace and articulation of a
progressive agenda remains to be seen. There is no doubt that the
short-term messaging from the Sanders' campaign will be that they
will keep plowing ahead and fight for delegates in the remaining
states. As of Tuesday, half the states have voted. The math has
Clinton with 300 more [3] pledged delegates than Sanders. That is not
counting super-delegates, the elected officers and party officials,
where she has 427 to his 26 [3]. Sanders reportedly spent
$12 million in ads for Tuesday's contests, compared to Clinton's $7
million.
Many of Sanders' supporters have not been involved in political
campaigns before, and will have a hard time immediately processing
But there are some big unanswered questions about what is next fortogether.
them in 2016-and what Clinton will also do to bring these two
campaigns
Sanders has taken positions that appeal to the disaffected voters whoCitizen's Guide to Voting"
have been drawn in by Trump and Cruz. One can only hope that the
Democratic Party knows it will need the millions of young economic
progressives to turn out in November. And they may not unless they
have a candidate they can believe in.
Steven Rosenfeld covers national political issues for AlterNet,
including America's retirement crisis, democracy and voting rights,
and campaigns and elections. He is the author of "Count My Vote: A
(AlterNet Books, 2008).
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.
Report typos and corrections to 'corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx'. [4] Error!
Hyperlink reference not valid.[5]
Source URL:
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/trump-and-clintons-big-night-po
s es-har d-questions-sanders-campaign-and-his-youthful
Links:
[1] http://www.alternet.org/authors/steven-rosenfeld
[2] http://alternet.org
[3]
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/primary-calendar
-
and-re
sults.html?action=click&contentCollection=Election%202016&reg
i
on=Foo
ter&module=WhatsNext&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNex
t &m oduleDetail=undefined&pgtype=Multimedia
[4] mailto:corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=Typo on Trump and ;
Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard Questions For Sanders Campaign and His
Youthful Supporters [5] http://www.alternet.org/ [6] ;
http://www.alternet.org/%2Bnew_src%2B
