There you go insulting my intelligence again. You claim that atheists
dismiss facts. I have gone around with you on this question over and
over again and you repeatedly dismiss facts and refuse to admit facts
when you are slapped in the face with them. Atheists are the ones who do
recognize facts and dismiss the completely unsupported assertions of
religion. By the way, Mustafa, do you happen to believe that Muhammad
visited heaven by means of riding a flying horse to get there? Do answer
that and if you answer it the way I suspect you will we can just see who
it is who dismisses facts.
On 7/22/2018 2:03 PM, Mostafa wrote:
Mr Roger, your experience with religion is typical there. I insist,
religion in the west is not important. Even southern evangelists, they
live like irreligious people. I do not give any attention to faith
opposition posed by western atheists. To me, they like drug addicts.
They dismiss facts to live in their own illusions. I am not scolding
you for this. I just want you to fathom, that the conception of
religion here is totally different from what you experienced in
capitalistic America. Religion in the west is majorly practiced
through moneygrubbing. I do not give in to deceit. Roger, I do not
care at all about religion in the west. It is of zero value to me. You
won't understand because you never experienced true spiritualism. You
and millions there are spiritually dead. This is why in the west, they
embraced relativism and disposed sacredness. The west is not like
here. The divine being there is personified. Don't think that much
about what I say. Because it is not important to you.
On 7/21/18, Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Let me reply to my own message because I have additional thoughts on my
last sentence. I said that people generally find it offensive to have
religion pushed on them. On the subject of religion I am in a minority
in the United States. I understand that in some countries like Sweden or
Denmark atheists are now in the majority, but polls consistently show
that atheists are a pretty small minority in the United States even
though the proportion of atheists is growing. I live in a part of the
United States that is commonly called the bible belt because the
proportion of religious people is even greater than in the rest of the
country and the adherents to that kind of religion, evangelical
religion, are especially fervent about their religion. Actually, I think
I live on about the northern border of the bible belt. There is no rigid
demarcated border, of course, so it is kind of hard to tell where it is,
but in southern West Virginia I think that is considered to be within
the bible belt. This means that I am in an especially small minority
where I am. Yet, for most of the people I know or have ever known I have
no idea of what religion they adhere to or if they even adhere to any
religion. They just don't talk about it. Oh, occasionally I will hear a
god bless or an I-will-pray-about-it, but that only lets me know that
they do adhere to some religion and it is just a passing comment like
how do you do. Various conversations will lead to any number of topics
and something may come up that lets me know that a person attends some
particular church, but, again, it is a passing thing. That is, the very
large majority of people do not push their religions on other people and
that leads to harmonious interactions. Then there are a few who are
frequently called bible thumpers. With them every attempt to communicate
has to be bogged down into professions of religion. They never cease to
proselytize and they are real pests. You cannot solve the problem even
by walking away. They will follow you. By the way, after I became blind
and found myself among blind people for the first time in my life I was
surprised that the proportion of blind bible thumpers is considerably
higher than in the general populations. But bible thumpers are
offensive. They are not only offensive to me. They are even offensive to
other religious people. Some religions like the Mormons or the Jehovah's
Witnesses send their members to proselytize door to door. Pretty much
every time I hear someone mention them it is in a disparaging manner.
So, yes, pushing religion on other people is generally offensive, or, as
Miriam described it, it is not considered to be polite. But again, I am
not going to prohibit any kind of post on this list. You might find,
though, that you will offend fewer people if you push religion on an
email list that is set up for that purpose. People subscribe to those
lists especially for that. I would suspect, though, that you would be
more welcome on a list dedicated to your own religion rather than to
another religion. This list is only a political discussion list because
most of the subscribers are interested in politics, but politics is
still the main topic here. I think you will find less friction here by
discussing politics. Again, though, I am not planning to prohibit
discussion of any topic.
On 7/20/2018 8:52 PM, Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted sender rogerbailey81
for DMARC) wrote:
You might try discussing the articles posted here. That can instigate
some vigorous discussion and debate. However, people generally find it
offensive to have religion pushed on them.
On 7/20/2018 4:01 PM, Mostafa wrote:
Miriam,
thank you so much for your message. You are correct about my
confusion of intolerant with intolerable. I indeed am still learning
and will endeavor
continue to. Roger, I truly appreciate your respectful response. We
certainly are here to disagree. As for Donald Trump and what he does,
when I heard the Republican's stage demented debate in Las Vegas
during election era, I thought, hmm, perhaps Donald Trump is not the
nuttiest after all. They wholly breathe antipathy, derision and utter
bigotry. It is absolutely fine for them to use media podiums for
promoting Islamophobia, Racial Disparity and Xenophobia. The
separation of children scandal is the heaviest substantiation for
that. They viciously take advantage of September eleventh incidents to
perpetually justify their acts of transgression. Well, as for now, I
am feted with being here. I at least converse with edified and sane
folks. As for freedom, each and every culture has its own discernment
of what it signifies. Roger has indeed never banned members based on
their opinions and convictions. This is absolutely quite civil and
respectful. This is the reason for which I remained here despite
anything else. For me, freedom is to unrestrictedly opine my
convictions and beliefs while considering not to infract, trespass
or obtrude upon someone's seclusion. If I tolerated jeopardising
someone's private space, I then am running against my own
fundamentals. The word freedom lies beyond merely doing whatever
someone desires to do. It involves exercising politesse and
perfunctory courtesy. I think mass American culture flummoxes the word
freedom with defamation. Well, lastly, today was a beautiful day. I
ran, attended Friday service and went out with some pals afterward.
Upon my return to home, I washed the dishes and tidied my room a bit.
Typically during evenings, I am occupied with major domestic chores.
It became sort of a duty after marriage. I again, would like to thank
everyone in this list. I am now immensely urged to engage in further
discussions. What type of subject could we discuss and perhaps derive
from it some encouragement or positive outcome? I am thrilled to
interact. Best wishes, Mustafa
On 7/20/18, Mustafa <ebob824@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
To Mr Roger and all, thank you for interacting with my latest thread.
I just would like to follow up with a simple comment. It is totally
fine for me to hear about many Americans despising faith or religious
preaching. But please, do not tell me "we have freedom". This
statement is vastly controversial and uncorroborated. As you have
"Freedom" to be whatever you want to be or say whatever you want to
say, I in return have absolute freedom to methodically refute,
repudiate and criticise your version and apprehension of freedom. I
intellectually decline American conception of portraying liberty. I
typically review what people write here. However, I am constantly
occupied with domestic affairs. I respond when I have time and proper
tendency. I respect what people believe regardless of what that is. I
quite fathom that I am seen here as a stranger. I am Muslim, from
Egypt and thereupon, I am totally different. Perhaps I am the only
blind individual from the Middle Eastern region who dares to verbally
argue with Americans online. As Miriam said and she is right, no one
should expect his conversational peer to alter his convictions.
Thence, we may better treat each other deferentially. I was really
discomfited at the manner by which Mr Roger treated pastor Jason of
Baltimore. They had an invaluable discussion and I was closely
watching their debate until discourtesy has been brought. I previously
made the mistake of targeting individuals with strong and possibly,
unbearable rhetoric rather than constructively criticising their
thoughts. From now on, I decided to totally change my way of
communication. This is an uneasy task but, I am willing to
relentlessly attempt until I inshAllah make a difference. I regularly
compose these posts to incessantly improve my command of written
English. At the same time, I certainly benefit from talking to people
who may have perspectives different than mine. These are two crucial
factors that I am stiffly stick to. I recently reassessed my online
demeaner and sincerely asked myself, shouldn't you be genuinely
respectful and treat others as you like to be treated? I therefore
have sat the subsequent parameters for myself. I'll judge my manner of
treating people online and particularly on this list according to the
standards I inducted to myself. Before you say a word to someone,
think about its import and reflect on its impact if it was said to
you. Second, if you made the mistake of purposelessly dissing at
someone unjustifiedly, don't be afraid to apologise. Apology is of
strength, not impuissance. Third, if someone spoke against your belief
or convictions, don't hasten to make a fuss and just be tolerant. Ask
the person first, if he is interested to receive sort of
clarrification to the matter which you believe he is rather confused
about. Lastly, despite our major differences, I appreciate my
membership of the list. Throughout the long time I spent here, I
recognise that the type of Americans here are totally different from
those I hear about, those who racially and religiously detest me or
the Donald Trump like ones. I mostly interact here with highly
educated individuals, if I compare them to lay people of their local
communities. This is common among blind folks worldwide though. Thank
you so much for patiently reading. It is Friday morning, so
fortuitously, it's the beginning of the weekend here. I am off work
today. Nevertheless, in a little bit, I'll go to join a group of young
folks called Cairo runners. These are young people who regularly
gather to run at Cairo's unoccupied streets on Friday morning. Cairo
is a busy city, except for today and in particular, in the morning of
Friday. So, I better hasten, if I do not want to miss them.
On 7/18/18, R. E. Driscoll Sr <llocsirdsr@xxxxxxx> wrote:
All: Please do not confuse me with your facts my mind is already
made up!
Richard
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 17, 2018, at 10:43 PM, Mostafa <ebob824@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Mr
