But what does all of that have to do with being part of the country?
And, for that matter, what is a country? Is it a parcel of land
surrounded by arbitrary borders? Is it a geographical administrative
unit? Is it really anything important enough that most of us should
paying attention to the concept of a country?
On 9/13/2016 8:25 AM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
You're not part of the oligarchy, true. But you're an American citizen who
pays taxes. And you are a white male whose family has been in this country
for many generations. You may empathize with people of color who have been
badly treated here. You may find your needs unmet because of our current
political and economic system. But you also enjoy whatever benefits there
are for white American men who aren't wealthy or powerful. True, the
benefits appear to be rapidly decreasing. But you own a beautiful home and
property. You own some rental property or some other sort of property, if I
remember correctly. You receive social security benefits, retirement
benefits, and you are lucky enough to still be able to work and earn money
at 81 years of age. You eat out in restaurants, take vacation trips, and
apparently, your medical needs are being met adequately. No, you don't have
power and tremendous wealth, but your life is, from everything you've told
us, satisfactory. So yes, what you say about the inequities of our system is
true, and you may very well identify with people who are less fortunate than
you. But you, personally, are not subject to being shot by a police officer
because he sees you as a threat. And all of those Indians protesting the
pipeline, remember what they said. Even though they recognize that they have
been treated like refuse ever since europeans arrived here, they are saying
that they are Native Americans with rights that should be respected by the
government. They are not disavowing being part of this country. They are
demonstrating because they are not being treated as American citizens who
are indigenous to this land.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 1:45 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Attack on the Twin Towers
But what I'm trying to get across, Bob, is that just because I am either
forced to pay taxes or have fines levied, and if I refuse to pay them I
could be jailed, and just because the Oligarchy has some system of allowing
me to vote for candidates chosen and underwritten by that Oligarchy, does
not mean that I am a part of that government, or that it considers my needs
in its activities. In the 1930's the German Jews considered themselves to
be part of the German State.
They paid their taxes and conducted business, and operated their shops,
employing many other German citizens.
And what about our own people, our Black Americans. They had to be "given"
their freedom. But were they truly Citizens? The "government" claimed
them, but treated them like serfs at best. And there were our Japanese
Americans who were hauled off to be locked up..."for their own protection"
by a racist government that these Japanese Americans had believed they were
part of. How about our Puerto Rican "Citizens". They also have the right
to vote and pay taxes. But they have no real say in preventing the greedy
corporations from stripping them of their meager wealth.
I will spare our American Indian citizens plight, bullied for generations by
the BIA, set in place to defend their rights, and robbed by these same
defenders. Of course, closer to home because I have grandsons serving the
government, "Defending America and fighting Terror". Check out how well the
Oligarchy pays them for their loyal services. Especially once home, and
suffering the ravages of battle.
And all the while, there sit the Ruling Class, Masters of all they survey,
enjoying the fruits of our labor...but sharing only when forced to do so.
No, I don't feel that I am part of that sick corrupt greed ridden Oligarchy.
My people, the ones I pledge allegiance to, are out on the job, fighting to
keep bread on their families table and a roof over their heads. My people
certainly are not all Angels, but I'll sit down with any of them far sooner
than to be seen as a fawning surrogate of the Ruling Class.
And that's my sweet version of why I do not think of myself as part of a
government that would sell my mother's gold teeth, and send me to the poor
farm without thinking twice.
Carl Jarvis
On 9/12/16, Bob Hachey <bhachey@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Carl,Free Women.
I agree with you here. But, if we vote and pay taxes, like it or not,
it is our government even though it does not act in our interests in
too damned many instances. . What a mess!
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 10:50 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Attack on the Twin Towers
Good Sunday Morning Bob, and All Sinners and Saints on Blind Democracy.
Fifteen years since Terrorists blindly struck out and murdered over
3,000 Souls, some guilty of participating in the relentless world
conquest by the American Corporate Empire, and some, probably most,
innocent folks going about their jobs and business. Some of these
people came to America, seeking freedom to live their lives as they
were able, while others like myself, were born here, also growing up
in the belief that we could find a way to live our lives as Free Men and
Through a mixture of personal skill, opportunity, health, education,the Oligarchy, but are not accessible to the Working Class?
personal drive, and so many other factors, we struggled to rise to the
height of our potential.
Because we all live here in this Land called America, we do share,
willingly or unwillingly, certain obligations. We are all called upon
to financially support our collective needs. But do we all share this
financial obligation equally? If not, why not? Can it be that we
have different governments overlying one another? There is that
government we have been taught about in our grade school history
lessons, the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave. The Land of
Opportunity. But if that is "Our Land", then why is it not shared
equally among us all? Why are there laws that protect the Ruling Class,
How is it that our Police Departments enforce the law differently, ifW.
we are all Americans?
How can we really believe that we are all members of America, when a
small number of "us" receive preferential treatment? Is it possible
that even though we all live together, some of us live more equally?
And how can we belong to that small percentage of :Blessed" people,
when we can't even enter their gated communities or private clubs?
Isn't it time we stood up and said that we are two different
governments, one preferred and one trampled upon? When will we open
our minds to the fact that we, the Working Class, are no diffeerent in
the eyes of the Ruling Class, than any of the other Third World People
they control and steal from.
Yes, I was born here. But no, I am not a part of the Oligarchy that
is running unchecked, around the Globe.
Carl Jarvis
On 9/10/16, Bob Hachey <bhachey@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi all,
Truly fascinating discussion here. Like Carl, I don't believe I'm
part of the ruling class that has gotten us into this mess by it's
greedy ways and warlike tendencies.
But, like Miriam, I believe that, like it or not, we are all part of
this nation. Yes, many of us ehere on this list oppose our government
policies some of which helped to create the climate for the tragedy
of 911. Some might argue that if we weren't actively opposing our
government, that we were part of the problem. That idea is stated
best in Bob Dylan's "the times they are a-changin. Basically, he says
that one should get out of the new road if you can't lend a hand. George
Bush echoed similar sentiments when he said you're either with us or
against us. IT is truly sad that the majority of Americans seem to go
along with current policies and can't see how our government is in
many ways the cause of the attacks against us.
There, that's a good compromise between "we" and "they". That is our
tgovernment. It is not we or they, but it is, more precisely, our
government.
Bob Hachey
