Alice:
A very neat description. I
Richard
On 9/13/2016 4:53 PM, Alice Dampman Humel wrote:
Yes, but…everyone’s favorite words…
I think it is possible for any, all of us to identify with whomever or whatever attracts us, for what we feel an affinity, even where we see our roots. But, Carl, the life you describe bears little resemblance to the working class with which you so closely identify. I feel your pain as you watch the monetary value of your various properties decline. But meanwhile, you have land, horse barns, a beautiful place to live expansively, rental properties, a house, plans to build a retirement house, leaving the house you now occupy available for whatever you choose to do with it, a nice vehicle, albeit older and with plenty of miles on it, you take vacations, you eat out at nice restaurants, even casinos, a real blight on the working class, if you ask me, but you did not, and so on. I listen to you, and I think, how nice for you, you’ve managed to acquire whatever it takes to make you comfortable and able to enjoy life. But there are many beneath your station who resent the hell out of you, just as there are many in your position or better who resent those better off than they.
Instead of wishing everyone to suffer and grovel in the dirt, a la Maoist operation, why not wish that comfortable and enjoyable life for all? Not only wish, but work toward? Equality, parity does not necessarily have to exist at the bottom of the heap. And that is where I think the European social democracies have succeeded…they haven’t reduced everyone to bone crushing hard work and misery, they’ve attempted and, by and large succeeded, in making a life of reasonable comfort and enjoyment available to all.
On Sep 13, 2016, at 1:56 PM, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Yes, Yes, I accept all of that. You don't need to wear me down. The
oligarchy is probably an international oligarchy and neither you nor I
personally know anyone who is a member of it. And you are certainly not a
member of the wealthy class. Perhaps, you could be living the same kind of
life had you been born in England or France or Switzerland, Sweden, or
Denmark, or in Australia. Perhaps. But not probably in China or India or one
of the countries in Africa or the Middle East. You don't need to identify
with a government of which you disagree. But you are an American citizen
with the individual situation that your station in life allows. I think, as
Bob says, perhaps I'm quibbling about the words you use to describe the
situation, but certainly not with your disenchantment with it.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 11:03 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Attack on the Twin Towers
So Miriam, we will probably need to agree to disagree.
But, like the old Fire House dog, when the alarm goes off, I'm up and pawing
at the door. In other words, I can't just stop yapping and accept that we
both hold positions that differ some, one from the other. I am not arguing
that I was born in Washington State, city of Spokane, back in 1935...April
13, in case anyone wants to send me C's Chocolates next year. And yes, I
pay taxes, since I have no battery of attorney's to shuttle my ill gotten
gains to some off-shore bank.
And I have been either fortunate or clever enough to carve out a place for
my family and myself. But all of that would have occurred no matter where I
happened to have been born. What I am suggesting is that no matter where I
was born, or how cunning I was to claw my way to a comfortable place in
life, the Oligarchy is the government over this land, and I am not accepted
into their very tight numbers. Nor do I support the goals of the Oligarchy.
This government is not representing my, or my people's interests. It is not
that I turned down a cushy life behind gates and guard dogs, it is that I
was never considered worthy of being included. Yes, I am, by birth, an
American. No, again by accident of my parentage, I am not a member of the
Ruling Class. Yes, I can allow myself, or be forced to be used by the
Lords of the Land, but they will throw me to the curb when my usefulness is
at an end. This government of the Ruling Class, by the Ruling Class and for
the Ruling Class has the means to crush me and anyone else who might be
foolish enough to stand in the middle of the road and attempt to block the
long line of tanks.
But I refuse to allow myself to be tied to a government that harbors
criminals, such as Henry Kissinger, George Bush(either one). Ronald Reagan,
Richard Nixon and so many others.
I cannot stop this Oligarchy from claiming me as an American Citizen, and
using me to further their purposes, because they hold all the marbles...and
the tanks, guns and bombs. Oh yes, before I forget, my good fortune is not
mine alone. I am half of a team...probably not the brightest partner.
And to go another step, I only say, "our home and property", because about
$150 thousand is still held by the bank, getting even richer from the never
ending interest on that loan. And the property Cathy and I sunk our
retirement money into, back in 2006, because I was fearful that we would
lose it if we kept it in the bank, that money,
$108 thousand, lost, between 2006 and 2016, about $53 thousand dollars. We
had planned to sell this home and ten acres in 2008, and build on our
property, owning it and the new home outright. But the Robber Banksters
were one clever step ahead of us. Even our house and ten acres lost enough
that we could not sell and receive enough equity to build our retirement
house. We saw the value of this home and land drop from around $360
thousand, to around $260, or somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 thousand
decline. Even finishing off our basement into an apartment with a third
bath room, and building a horse barn, and fencing the entire pasture, we
might be able to sell for around $310 thousand.
And out of the goodness of this Oligarchy s heart, we are paying just over
$900 hundred per month for health insurance. That will change next June 27,
when Cathy turns 65 and can switch to Medicare.
Still and all, I do agree that we are in a far more secure position than
many of the folks on this list. But it is not due to the Laws and Kindness
of this Oligarchy.
Oh yes, one other thought just crawled out from under the rock I call my
brain, and that is the fact that we have been driving the same vehicle for
13 years, and have just over 300 thousand miles logged in.
We have a "New Vehicle Fund", with something over $15 thousand squirreled
away. That is what we paid for our first Ford 150 Pickup Truck back in
1992, or about half of what we need to replace it today.
I think our present truck, a Ford Sport Trak (2003), cost something over $25
thousand.
So the bottom line is that while we might wish things were a bit better than
they are, and I continue to work in order to secure some sort of security in
our retirement, I understand that we are far better off than so many others.
But I am not more fortunate, or lucky. We worked hard within a Greed driven
system to arrive where we are. And we want to see all hard working people
have at least as much security as we do. Regardless of whether they see
themselves as part of the Oligarchy or as victims, they deserve fair
compensation for their labor. And my brothers and sisters of Color deserve
at least the same opportunities I had, as a White Blind Man.
So, have I worn you down yet, Miriam?
It's going to be just over 70 degrees today, and just over 80 tomorrow. The
sun is shining and I am going to take today off and dig some post
holes...God willing and my back can take it.
Carl Jarvis
On 9/13/16, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:You're not part of the oligarchy, true. But you're an American citizen"given"
who pays taxes. And you are a white male whose family has been in
this country for many generations. You may empathize with people of
color who have been badly treated here. You may find your needs unmet
because of our current political and economic system. But you also
enjoy whatever benefits there are for white American men who aren't
wealthy or powerful. True, the benefits appear to be rapidly
decreasing. But you own a beautiful home and property. You own some
rental property or some other sort of property, if I remember
correctly. You receive social security benefits, retirement benefits,
and you are lucky enough to still be able to work and earn money at 81
years of age. You eat out in restaurants, take vacation trips, and
apparently, your medical needs are being met adequately. No, you don't
have power and tremendous wealth, but your life is, from everything
you've told us, satisfactory. So yes, what you say about the
inequities of our system is true, and you may very well identify with
people who are less fortunate than you. But you, personally, are not
subject to being shot by a police officer because he sees you as a
threat. And all of those Indians protesting the pipeline, remember
what they said. Even though they recognize that they have been treated
like refuse ever since europeans arrived here, they are saying that
they are Native Americans with rights that should be respected by the
government. They are not disavowing being part of this country. They
are demonstrating because they are not being treated as American
citizens who are indigenous to this land.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 1:45 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Attack on the Twin Towers
But what I'm trying to get across, Bob, is that just because I am
either forced to pay taxes or have fines levied, and if I refuse to
pay them I could be jailed, and just because the Oligarchy has some
system of allowing me to vote for candidates chosen and underwritten
by that Oligarchy, does not mean that I am a part of that government,
or that it considers my needs in its activities. In the 1930's the
German Jews considered themselves to be part of the German State.
They paid their taxes and conducted business, and operated their
shops, employing many other German citizens.
And what about our own people, our Black Americans. They had to be
their freedom. But were they truly Citizens? The "government"protection"
claimed them, but treated them like serfs at best. And there were our
Japanese Americans who were hauled off to be locked up..."for their own
by a racist government that these Japanese Americans had believed theywealth.
were part of. How about our Puerto Rican "Citizens". They also have
the right to vote and pay taxes. But they have no real say in
preventing the greedy corporations from stripping them of their meager
I will spare our American Indian citizens plight, bullied fordo so.
generations by the BIA, set in place to defend their rights, and
robbed by these same defenders. Of course, closer to home because I
have grandsons serving the government, "Defending America and fighting
Terror". Check out how well the Oligarchy pays them for their loyal
services. Especially once home, and suffering the ravages of battle.
And all the while, there sit the Ruling Class, Masters of all they
survey, enjoying the fruits of our labor...but sharing only when forced to
No, I don't feel that I am part of that sick corrupt greed riddenRuling Class.
Oligarchy.
My people, the ones I pledge allegiance to, are out on the job,
fighting to keep bread on their families table and a roof over their
heads. My people certainly are not all Angels, but I'll sit down with
any of them far sooner than to be seen as a fawning surrogate of the
And that's my sweet version of why I do not think of myself as part of
a government that would sell my mother's gold teeth, and send me to
the poor farm without thinking twice.
Carl Jarvis
On 9/12/16, Bob Hachey <bhachey@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bhachey@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:Hi Carl,Free Women.
I agree with you here. But, if we vote and pay taxes, like it or not,
it is our government even though it does not act in our interests in
too damned many instances. . What a mess!
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl
Jarvis
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 10:50 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Attack on the Twin Towers
Good Sunday Morning Bob, and All Sinners and Saints on Blind Democracy.
Fifteen years since Terrorists blindly struck out and murdered over
3,000 Souls, some guilty of participating in the relentless world
conquest by the American Corporate Empire, and some, probably most,
innocent folks going about their jobs and business. Some of these
people came to America, seeking freedom to live their lives as they
were able, while others like myself, were born here, also growing up
in the belief that we could find a way to live our lives as Free Men
and
Through a mixture of personal skill, opportunity, health, education,the Oligarchy, but are not accessible to the Working Class?
personal drive, and so many other factors, we struggled to rise to
the height of our potential.
Because we all live here in this Land called America, we do share,
willingly or unwillingly, certain obligations. We are all called
upon to financially support our collective needs. But do we all
share this financial obligation equally? If not, why not? Can it be
that we have different governments overlying one another? There is
that government we have been taught about in our grade school history
lessons, the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave. The Land of
Opportunity. But if that is "Our Land", then why is it not shared
equally among us all? Why are there laws that protect the Ruling
Class,
How is it that our Police Departments enforce the law differently, ifW.
we are all Americans?
How can we really believe that we are all members of America, when a
small number of "us" receive preferential treatment? Is it possible
that even though we all live together, some of us live more equally?
And how can we belong to that small percentage of :Blessed" people,
when we can't even enter their gated communities or private clubs?
Isn't it time we stood up and said that we are two different
governments, one preferred and one trampled upon? When will we open
our minds to the fact that we, the Working Class, are no diffeerent
in the eyes of the Ruling Class, than any of the other Third World
People they control and steal from.
Yes, I was born here. But no, I am not a part of the Oligarchy that
is running unchecked, around the Globe.
Carl Jarvis
On 9/10/16, Bob Hachey <bhachey@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bhachey@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:Hi all,
Truly fascinating discussion here. Like Carl, I don't believe I'm
part of the ruling class that has gotten us into this mess by it's
greedy ways and warlike tendencies.
But, like Miriam, I believe that, like it or not, we are all part of
this nation. Yes, many of us ehere on this list oppose our
government policies some of which helped to create the climate for
the tragedy of 911. Some might argue that if we weren't actively
opposing our government, that we were part of the problem. That idea
is stated best in Bob Dylan's "the times they are a-changin.
Basically, he says that one should get out of the new road if you
can't lend a hand. George
Bush echoed similar sentiments when he said you're either with us or
against us. IT is truly sad that the majority of Americans seem to
go along with current policies and can't see how our government is
in many ways the cause of the attacks against us.
There, that's a good compromise between "we" and "they". That is our
tgovernment. It is not we or they, but it is, more precisely, our
government.
Bob Hachey
