[bksvol-discuss] Bookshare & PQ submission
- From: "Ann McCay" <annmccay@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 16:10:47 -0700
Well said, Lissi, and Lori. As this goes on, what we see, as blind people,
from publishers, unless there is some way to fix it, will not work for blind
people who need it, and I don't know if I would continue Bookshare if we
can't really read like we have been able to do.
and the
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Estelnalissi
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 3:51 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Bookshare & PQ submission
Dear Cat Lover Lori,
You said with restraint and clarity what I've been too upset to broach on
list. I agree with you.
I'm hurting too much to risk writing bitter words that I'd regret later. You
are a well spoken woman with class.
You're right, too, that the policy is a fate accompli and it's helpful that
you reminded us that our reaction to it isn't a debate. it's true that what
we may say about the decisions made without consideration for the special
needs of blind readers, won't change anything. Still, for now, this remains
our list, and I, for one, need it to vent my disappointment to a group who
will understand, where some listers who may feel the same about at least
part of what I'll say.
Thank you so much, Lori.
Always with love,
Lissi, continuing to validate with a heavy heart.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lori Castner" <loralee.castner@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 6:03 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Bookshare & PQ submission
> Monica and others,
>
> I did not read Cindy's message as speaking for all of us, and the message
> I am posting now speaks only for me. But in reality, all of our comments
> on this matter are totally irrelevant because the powers that be at
> Bookshare have already made the decisions: publisher quality books will
> replace books in the collection (unless some with pictcture descriptions
> can be preserved), and more and more publishers will be providing books
> (which is great as long as people don't mind the character of Bookshare
> changing)..
>
> I initially wrote my comments below last evening but put them in a draft
> message as I believed they should sit for a while, but they do voice my
> concerns.
>
> I'm going to say the first negative thing I've said on this list.
>
> All the points made about loss of chart table and poetry formatting are
> crucial concerns.
>
> In addition, the loss of very wonderful detailed picture descriptions
> provided by volunteers mainly in children's books but also in some adult
> books is irreplaceable. I grew up without picture descriptions in my
> books
> and their availability to blind children and adults today through
> bookshare
> books is a true marvel.
>
> But, here is the negative part. I am very disappointed to know that the
> hard work of many submitters and validators will be simply lost as
> publisher
> books become a more prominent part of Bookshare. Hours and hours of work
> simply gone; frankly, it feels like a corpporation taking over a small
> company.
>
> I am sure many will disagree with me, but as Bookshare progresses in this
> direction the work of volunteers will be less needed and the voice of
> those
> who scann/submit books to shape the collection will become less important.
>
> From what I know of the formation of Bookshare, it was originally a
> vehicle
> for many to submit books they had scanned so that other individuals could
> access them. It was a grassroots movement sort of; as I see it, in a few
> years it will no longer be that.
>
> True; we will have access to many more books, but users will have far less
> say and volunteers will have far less work and value.
>
> Mind you, Bookshare will still be a good and worthwhile source of books,
> but it won't be the same source. I may be alone in this concern, and
> maybe
> I am wrong, but I doubt it.
>
> Cat Lover Lori
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paula and James Muysenberg" <outofsightlife@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Bkvol" <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 4:35 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Bookshare & PQ submissions
>
>
>> these books contain charts or diagrams. I try to either format the charts
>> so
>> they will be understandable, keeping in mind that the Bookshare stripper
>> removes tabs, or I put an explanation in brackets. I'm sure other
>> submitters
>> do similar things, all of which would be lost when the book is replaced.
>> For the most part, I'm excited about publishers donating books to
>> Bookshare, but I really think these other issues need to be addressed.
>> I'm
>> concerned that none of this seems to have been taken in consideration,
>> when
>> the contract with publishers was drawn up.
>> The loss of picture descriptions in children's books especially
>> troubles
>> me, since some children's books don't
>> make much sense without the pictures. When our oldest daughter was a
>> toddler, someone gave us a couple of Frances books. The books never
>> mention
>> that Frances and her family are bears, and since I couldn't see the
>> pictures, it was years before I found that out. I also didn't know for
>> the
>> longest that Clifferd is a huge, red dog. Oh the gaps that will be left
>> in
>> our
>> education, without picture descriptions!
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>> Paula
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mrenae@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 5:33 PM
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Bookshare & PQ submissions
>>
>>
>>> Hi Carrie and Pavi,
>>>
>>> All that you say here I understand completely. There are, however,
>>> a couple of cases in which replacing a truly excellent copy of a book
>>> scanned and validated by conscientious volunteers would be, in my
>>> opinion,
>>> harmful to the Bookshare collection. Children's books that have had
>> picture
>>> descriptions and handwritten pages typed in by volunteers, and books of
>>> poetry in which stanzas have been preserved would be of lower quality
>>> from
>>> the publishers. Obviously copies of childrens' books from the publisher
>>> will not include picture descriptions. If handwriting is preserved in
>>> the
>>> text of publisher quality books as handwriting, , no screen reader will
>> read
>>> that. And finally, poetry that is not protected from having all of its
>>> stanzas and lines run together is no longer poetry, but prose, which it
>> was
>>> not intended to be.
>>>
>>> I understand that to keep your contract with publishers, you must
>>> keep only their copies of books. That can't probably be changed. I do
>>> think it is important to note that there will be in some few cases, some
>>> important things lost by removing scanned copies of books from the
>> Bookshare
>>> collection. I doubt that there is anything that can be done. But this
>>> is
>> a
>>> sad situation to me.
>>>
>>> I would suggest that members grab any books whose quality might
>>> suffer in ways that I have noted, and others that I haven't thought of,
>> that
>>> they want to read that might be replaced by publisher quality books now
>>> before they are replaced.
>>>
>>> Mayrie
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pavi Mehta
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 2:20 PM
>>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Cc: Lisa Friendly
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Bookshare & PQ submissions
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> In the light of recent discussions on the list regarding Publisher
>>> quality
>>> submissions we wanted to send an email to all of you to clarify
>> Bookshare's
>>> position on this.
>>>
>>> While volunteers continue to be our primary source of books being put
>>> into
>>> the collection, upgrading books already in the collection continues to
>>> be
>>> one of Bookshare's primary goals. Many volunteers have contributed
>>> thousands of hours in improving books in the collection, and they do a
>> great
>>> job! But publishers have resources that allow them to create perfect
>> copies
>>> of books. Bookshare would like every single book in the collection to be
>>> absolutely perfect, and this goal actually might be achievable if we can
>>> convince publishers to donate e-book versions of their books. Many of
>>> the
>>> Publisher Quality books that we receive are in perfect condition, but
>>> not
>>> quite all at this point, as the technology is evolving in the publishing
>>> industry.
>>>
>>> We need to encourage publishers to donate their books, since eventually
>> they
>>> will be donating ONLY perfect books. And wouldn't that be wonderful?
>> Imagine
>>> every single book in the collection being perfect! Currently it's a
>>> goal,
>>> but someday, maybe not too far away, it might be possible to achieve it.
>>> We know that thousands of volunteers have contributed hundreds of
>> thousands
>>> of hours of effort in putting books into the collection, and we
>> acknowledge
>>> that the vast majority of our books are in excellent condition. But
>>> upgrading our books will always be a primary goal, and to that end, we
>> will
>>> replace current books with publisher quality books. It is also very
>>> important for us to let our volunteer community know that this
>>> replacement
>>> policy is in fact a requirement of the contracts that we sign with the
>>> publishing houses.
>>>
>>> To the extent possible, we will also inform the volunteers of the books
>> that
>>> publishers will be sending us, so as to not duplicate efforts. With
>>> every
>>> batch of books that publishers send us, there are software changes
>> required
>>> in our processing of their books, so the books are currently being added
>> to
>>> the collection in at a fairly slow trickle. But we are pretty optimistic
>>> that in the near future, the speed of donating books and processing them
>>> will increase. Our mandate from the US Department of Education is to put
>>> 100,000 new books into the collection in 5 years. We have no doubt that
>>> we
>>> will meet that goal, especially with all the Publisher Quality books
>>> that
>> we
>>> are being given by the forward-thinking publishers who are so generous
>> with
>>> their time, efforts and books. Huge thanks to O'Reilly, HarperCollins,
>>> Scholastic, and other publishing houses and to all of you as we continue
>> to
>>> grow the collection as a team.
>>>
>>>
>>> Carrie Karnos and Pavi Mehta
>>> Bookshare.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Monica Willyard" <rhyami@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: "Pavi Mehta" <pavim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Lisa Friendly"
> <lisaf@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 1:08 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Bookshare & PQ submission
>
>
>> Hi, Cindy. No one likes to have their time wasted or see what they
>> worked on replaced. Having said that, a large number of books
>> currently in the collection are nowhere near perfect. Keeping them for
>> the sake of preserving someone's time isn't fair to the members of
>> Bookshare both because it would create confusion when someone is
>> searching for books and because we don't enjoy reading messed up books
>> unless we have no other choice. Even books rated excellent aren't
>> usually letter perfect, and a significant number have some serious
>> issues.
>>
>> Cindy, you have the ability to grab a book from your library or
>> bookstore and read it whenever you want to. You never have to worry
>> about scannos, and you don't have the distraction of hearing non-words
>> spoken in almost every paragraph. Yet you are the loudest voice asking
>> for Bookshare to keep scanned books when a publisher-quality book is
>> available. Yes, you may validate carefully from the print copy, and
>> that's wonderful. You are not in the majority though, and Bookshare
>> can't just keep books processed by you while getting rid of everyone
>> else's. All of us here have put our money, time, and energy into
>> preparing books for people to read. Yet we do this knowing that
>> someone could come along and do a BSO of our book at any time. In this
>> case, the publisher is doing a BSO, and who is more qualified to
>> provide it than the publisher?
>>
>> You send your emails copied to Lisa and Pavi and would seem to speak
>> for us. You don't speak for many of us because you don't have any
>> concept of what it's like to have scanned books as your only source
>> for reading material. If Bookshare had a magic button where they could
>> replace every book with a perfect publisher quality version, I would
>> celebrate and send the staff some champagne. There are a small number
>> of books with hand-written picture descriptions that might be
>> replaced, and you could contact Bookshare about those. There are
>> literally thousands of books in the Bookshare collection that are
>> barely legible right now. They would become a pleasure to read if
>> replaced. Teachers want extremely clean scans for their students to
>> read. The PQ books provide that and benefit adult readers as well. I
>> just hope they will expand the program and that other publishers will
>> work with Bookshare in the future.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Monica Willyard
>> Visit my blog at http://www.scannersguild.com
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>>
>
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>
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