atw: Re: Use of 457 Visas in the IT Industry ...
- From: "Christine Kent" <cmkentau@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 07:37:55 +0100
If we are being undercut by 457 visas, that is just another in the list of
challenges our profession is facing:
· Off-shoring of the “hack” work
· Price cutting by recent immigrants
· Rapid technological change driving industry change and re-definition
of roles
· General economic sluggishness.
We could probably find more, but what’s the point? Perhaps the 457 visa issue
could be addressed, and maybe the global economy will recover. These alone
might ease the pressure, but the problem will not go away, so it we must
address it, as an industry.
My temptation is to say “goodbye hack work”. I suspect it is gone for good.
The work still available to us is the specialist work where:
· there are few people with a required knowledge background
· local cultural knowledge is imperative
· a security clearance is required
· new technology is opening niche roles that will take a year or two to
get flooded, giving the early adopters a short term edge
I would guess that the years of us drifting from IT project to IT project are
well and truly gone.
Christine
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Michelle Hallett
Sent: Tuesday, 7 May 2013 4:14 AM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Use of 457 Visas in the IT Industry ...
Neil,
The job I mentioned was a BA role, though I think the same problem will happen
in writing roles, especially in IT where I do a lot of work. The instance I
mentioned is only one job (though it was one I really wanted) but I too think
it will happen more in the future.
I think we have to decide whether we want a higher standard of living (and
hence the need to earn higher wages) or to accept lower wages and then be able
to buy less. If that happens, small business and retail will sell less and that
will push prices down. Businesses will be less able to hire people and soon
enough, our economy devolves into the type of economy the Europeans appear to
have. It troubles me too.
Michelle
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Neil Maloney
Sent: Tuesday, 7 May 2013 12:37 PM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Use of 457 Visas in the IT Industry ...
Michelle, in my other post just sent, I thought carefully about writing, in
relation to how serious the 457 visa problem is in the IT industry here, that
it is "not of such great an interest to me". I wrote that in an attempt to jump
out of continuing to write about that aspect of the recent threads on this
list, because I'm not involved in the way you and others are, I don't know
what's happening and I don't know that there is that much I would be able to
contribute. However, your situation, and that of others on this list where 457
visa holders may have undercut them, does trouble me and I wish it wasn't
happening. Wishing doesn't make it go away, unfortunately, and I'm wondering
whether it is going to be happening more frequently as time goes by. Is what
has just happened in the USA an indicator? Don't know, but I do know that it
too troubles me.
Neil.
On 7/05/2013 12:30 PM, Michelle Hallett wrote:
Hi Tim,
I don't know much about the American context. I do know that I lost a job for
which I was qualified last year to someone on a 457 visa.
I have a mortgage to pay so I can't live on $50,000 and I suspect there are
others like me. Paying people $50,000 a year to do work for which I would ask
$80-100,000 undercuts the money people like us can earn. I also spent a lot of
money at university and doing additional courses to keep up with technology so
I expect to earn more than $50,000.
I'm all for other people living a decent lifestyle, though I'd prefer it didn't
undercut my own.
Regards
Michelle
-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tim Hildred
Sent: Tuesday, 7 May 2013 11:43 AM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Use of 457 Visas in the IT Industry ...
Sorry, Neil, where are you going with that?
>From the NYTimes article, I took away that the H1-B program is good for
>America, and is being advocated for by conservatives. But the American context
>is not the Austrlian context.
In the Australian context, you can't pay someone less than $50 000 on a 457.
That isn't exactly low-wage. It may not be Jay-z money, but it allows skilled
people to take jobs that Australians aren't interested and live a decent
lifestyle.
I'm wary of drawing attention to the 457 program without providing context
because of recent rhetoric coming from the political class. Who seem to ignore
the presence of their own 457 staff while attempting to stir up some kind of
populist nationalism in a desperate attempt to win votes.
Tim Hildred, RHCE
Content Author II - Engineering Content Services, Red Hat, Inc.
Brisbane, Australia
Email: thildred@xxxxxxxxxx
Internal: 8588287
Mobile: +61 4 666 25242
IRC: thildred
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Maloney" <mailto:maloneyn@xxxxxxxxxxx> <maloneyn@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2013 2:27:54 PM
Subject: atw: Use of 457 Visas in the IT Industry ...
Someone on the list in the last few days (I am sure) mentioned that
there are a lot of dodgy workers in IT under the 457 scheme. Had a
good look for that mail, can't find it, the dog must have eaten it.
I thought I'd post this link about what's happening in the US of A
with their H-1B scheme, from today's New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/us/politics/tech-firms-take-lead-in-
lobbying-on-immigration.html?hp&_r=0
From the article:
Silicon Valley lobbyists told Senate negotiators they agreed that the
H1-B visa system had been subject to abuse. Go after the companies
that take advantage of guest worker visas and give us the benefit of
the doubt, they told the Senate staff members, according to interviews
with several lobbyists.
“You know and we know there are some bad people in this system,” is
how Scott Corley, the president of Compete America, a technology
industry coalition, recalled the conversation. “We are simply trying
to make sure that as they are pursuing the rats they are not sinking the ship.”
That acknowledgment, several lobbyists said privately, helped unlock
an impasse in negotiations.
What emerged was a Senate measure that allows American technology
companies to procure many more skilled guest worker visas, raising the
limit to
110,000 a year from 65,000 under current law, along with a provision
to expand it further based on market demand. The bill would also allow
these companies to move workers on guest visas more easily to
permanent resident visas, freeing up more temporary visas for these companies.
But it requires them to pay higher wages for guest workers and to post
job openings on a Web site, so Americans can have a chance at them.
And it draws a line in the sand between these technology firms and the
mostly Indian companies that supply computer workers on H-1B visas for
short-term jobs at companies in the United States.
... and I'm not necessarily saying that this is good news.
Unemployment in the US is running at 7.5% and this deal allows more
foreign workers to be brought in (although the bill hasn't been passed yet).
Neil.
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