atw: Re: Strange job advertisements/skills combinations
- From: "Marks Mail" <mkofler@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:52:39 +1100
The job has not been posted by an agency.
It is from a Company called surpise, surprise HotMagna in Melbourne.
If you look at their website www.hotmagna.com you will see the job is posted
there as well, although you won't find any addtional information.
-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of bja
Sent: Friday, 27 February 2004 10:20 AM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Strange job advertisements/skills combinations
Hi Matilda,
Turns out the ASTCs have made a start and actually have a tangible output
(I'm yet to see it though).
From here, you only need to put your hand up and offer to become involved at
an ASTC level. The more hands, the easier it all becomes.
Regards,
Bruce Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Matilda Reich
> Sent: Thursday, 26 February 2004 1:21 PM
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: atw: Re: Strange job advertisements/skills combinations
>
>
> Bruce,
> I agree that this could be a 'fishing for info' exercise for
> some party
> involved in a project tender. Makes sense.
> As for accreditation for TWs, I think that's a great idea. Other
> professions have it. Ok, where do we start?
> Matilda Reich
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: bja <bashley@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 4:36 PM
> Subject: atw: Re: Strange job advertisements/skills combinations
>
>
> > Since I guess I started this, I'm going to have one last say on it.
> >
> > (BTW Geoff, I'm fully back on the air again - thanks)
> >
> > Interestingly, I note the agency involved has not commented.
> >
> > Anyway, despite everyone agreeing that testing is a good
> thing, they miss
> > the point of the original email: The company gave no
> details in their ad.
> > The company requested a "page per day rate".
> >
> > There are only two reasons (in my suspicious, beady little
> eyes) that a
> > company would ask for this: 1. To get rough estimates they
> were unable to
> > get for themselves (and the main reason would be for
> quoting in a tender)
> > and 2. So that they can tie a TW to a contract where
> remuneration is based
> > on that rate.
> >
> > To use this figure as some form of measure to apply against
> different
> > applicants would be stupid and therefore is an unlikely reason.
> >
> > Having seen a few trawlers and shonky people in the
> employment agency
> > business over the years, I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts
> that I'm right
> on
> > this one.
> >
> > Also, in relation to the subsequent comments, I personally
> believe we
> should
> > have system of certification based on a skills matrix
> (listing all skills
> > possible) where those accredited have been formally tested
> by their peers
> (a
> > once-a-month panel of ASTC members et al). It would be
> difficult at first
> > but as more TWs became accredited, it would become easier
> and this would
> > reduce the need for companies like HCi to run tests
> (although I would
> > probably still test an applicants knowledge and I will
> always use a resume
> > as the first test of a writer's abilities).
> >
> > Certification could even be an income generator for the
> ASTCs and a one
> time
> > fee would apply. TWs could go for re-accreditation for a
> reduced fee once
> > their skills or experience change.
> >
> > But this is an old argument of mine and others.
> >
> > ASTCs..... ? <Jab> <Jab> - it's been a few months now. :)
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Bruce Ashley
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
> > > joe_zolin@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 25 February 2004 10:24 AM
> > > To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: atw: Re: Strange job advertisments/skills combinations
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah, I hear what you say, CBK, and I'm not saying bja's
> > > concerns aren't
> > > relevant..
> > >
> > > IMNSHO though, I like the ad. If taken from the
> perspective that they
> > > might actually know what a tech writer does, and know
> what a good tech
> > > writer should produce, it would act as a magic filter system...
> > >
> > > Say fer instance a newbie applies and states they can produce
> > > 20 pages a
> > > day... immediate fail... unrealistic self-expectations.
> > >
> > > Say perhaps a reasonably experienced tech writer applies and
> > > stating they
> > > can produce 5 pages per day, but does not mention that
> this can vary
> > > depending of difficulty of app, availability of SMEs and
> variations in
> > > toolsets provided by company... Fail again, seemingly
> unaware of the
> > > variations from task to task.
> > >
> > > Then someone like bja, or cbk comes along, states a range
> of possible
> > > page-per-day results, lists the possible factors affecting
> > > production rate,
> > > queries the need for such a tight skill set... Immediate
> > > second interview
> > > because these people obviously have what it takes to
> > > realistically assess
> > > and plan for a task...immediately exhibiting the level of
> tech writer
> > > knowledge and skill required for a serious tech writing job...
> > >
> > >
> > > Sure as hell would cut through the several hundred wanna be
> > > applicants.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Joe Zolin
> > > Technical Communicator/Tech Comms MYOB
> > > E-mail: JOE.ZOLIN@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Phone (work): (03) 9222 9992 Ext. 7429
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "BIRTLEY-KENT,Christine"
> > >
> > > <Christine.BIRTLEY-KENT@de To:
> > > <austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > wr.gov.au> cc:
> > >
> > > Sent by:
> > > Subject: atw: Strange job advertisments/skills
> > > combinations
> > > austechwriter-bounce@freel
> > >
> > > ists.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 25/02/2004 10:11 AM
> > >
> > > Please respond to
> > >
> > > austechwriter
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >Keep smiling, not everyone is out ta get ya!=20=20=20=20
> > >
> > > Nonetheless, it is still impossible to quote a pages per day rate
> > > without assessing the environment for which you are
> developing those
> > > pages. My rate can vary from 1 to 16 depending upon degree of
> > > difficulty and quality expectations.
> > >
> > > Perhaps someone who is applying for work in Melbourne will
> > > apply and let
> > > us know what happens. It doesn't hurt to stay informed.
> > >
> > > There is an ad in Canberra at the moment asking for an e-learning
> > > developer. The third requirement is:
> > >
> > > 3. Provision of an eLearning tool that has an inbuilt
> tool to track
> > > learning administration and can interface with Aurion and meet IT
> > > infrastructure requirements=20
> > >
> > > How can anyone provide this tool without first knowing the
> > > infrastructure and other variables? And how many
> training developers
> > > are software vendors? Realistically they need to be asking
> > > for someone
> > > with 'the skills to find' an appropriate eLearning tool....
> > >
> > > I would be interested to know if these people get inundated
> > > by the wrong
> > > type of applicants too.
> > >
> > > ck
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: joe_zolin@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:joe_zolin@xxxxxxxxxxx]=20
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 9:45 AM
> > > To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: atw: Re: New Pay Scales for TWs?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I thought they were asking how many pages a day you could
> produce, not
> > > the expected charge rate per page.
> > >
> > > Direct quote from ad:
> > > "please quote an approximate pages-per-day rate"
> > >
> > > Still vague, though, but I've got a feeling that bja
> migyht be jumping
> > > the gun a bit here.
> > >
> > > Also, consider the reasons for not stating company name... If the
> > > company actually said who they were, there would be flock
> (or should I
> > > say
> > > murder..) of agencies descending upon them trying to get the
> > > listing and
> > > subsequant placement fee for their own.
> > >
> > > =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=2
> > > 0=20=20=20=20
> > > =
> > > =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=2
> > > 0=20=20=20=20
> > > =
> > > =20
> > > =20=20=20
> > > =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=2
> > > 0=20=20=20=20
> > > =
> > > =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=2
> > > 0=20=20=20=20
> > > =
> > > =20
> > > =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=2
> > > 0=20=20=20=20
> > > =
> > > =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=2
> > > 0=20=20=20=20
> > > =
> > > =20
> > > =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=2
> > > 0=20=20=20=20
> > > =
> > > =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=2
> > > 0=20=20=20=20
> > > =
> > > =20
> > >
> > >
> > > Joe Zolin
> > > Technical Communicator/Tech Comms MYOB
> > > E-mail: JOE.ZOLIN@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Phone (work): (03) 9222 9992 Ext. 7429
> > >
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