atw: Re: Discrimination
- From: Meryl McKerrow <meryl.mckerrow@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 00:14:56 +0000
Thanks for that Christine
- although I do use styles, I only think about the normal template when
something messes with it and everything gets stuffed up.
Kind regards,
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From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christine Kent
Sent: Wednesday, 1 May 2013 9:26 PM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Discrimination
Oh, groan
I have worked with older TWs who did not know any of this also. I have found
myself trawling through candidate CVs and rejecting all those that are manually
formatted, but that is not enough. I have still employed individuals with nice
CVs (presumably formatted by someone else) only to find that they could not use
a template.
Unfortunately the TAFE colleges who teach Word do not respect the importance of
templates. In my books I put an understanding of Normal template first, but
the TAFEs teach the students how to format manually and do not mention
templates and styles until the end of the course. I did serious battle with a
few of them on this one, and lost - meaning that they would not use my books
because they would not agree to introduce Normal template from the start.
Unfortunately I would guarantee that there are a few lurkers on this list who
are red-faced at the moment.
As my relatively silent protest to this nonsense, I have made available a free
PDF file on Lulu explaining how to use Normal template. For those with red
faces, here it is.
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/christinekent
There is vastly more to TW than tools, but at least tools should be mastered!
Christine
From:
austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bob Trussler
Sent: Wednesday, 1 May 2013 12:13 PM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: atw: Re: Discrimination
Peter,
You could add
+ lack of experience AND EDUCATION which leads to LOW productivity.
Examples are
- not knowing that a word processor can generate a table of contents
- not knowing that a word processor works better when using styles
- not knowing that a word processor can generate a bulleted list (and a
two-column table is just a plain silly and clunky work-around)
- not knowing that a word processor can generate a numbered list.
- not knowing how to correct or work-around a stuffed up numbered list.
- not knowing how to set tabs
- not knowing how to set indents
- being able to do lots of things in Dreamweaver, but having no idea how to
edit HTML code
Need I go on!
I am not making this up.
Bob T
On 30 April 2013 11:08, Peter Martin
<prescribal@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:prescribal@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
On Sunday, April 28, 2013, David Crosswell wrote:
On 28/04/13 16:23, Christine Kent wrote:
The reality for many on this list is that we are getting old, and it is
futile to ignore that age is a very significant factor in overall
discrimination patterns, at least as significant as gender or race.
However, those of us who know very well that discrimination is a major
factor in employment patterns never dare discuss it in a public forum
because none of us wants to admit that we may be having trouble getting
enough work.
How do we counter whichever discrimination we are facing? In my case it is
age and to a lesser extent, gender. For all of us it is price, whether that
is the employment of juniors as "good enough" or offshoring. With so much
of our work being outsourced to India, we are facing a very real issue.
This is true, but it needs more analysis than just identification.
With the `age' factor, there are three aspects in a potential employer's mind:
* staid inflexibility. Which may be a reality and quite often is. Can an
employer afford to pay out for the time to discover whether s/he has an
exception to the rule on this occasion?
* experience. Which has to be paid for.
* over qualified. And is this person going to content to stay for longer
than an initial period, even if they have no other market option?
Outsourcing is a market strategy to drop the local price.
Not all work can be. Especially not work that needs to be constantly referenced
with SMEs.
Not all of that can be done via the 'Net.
Cheers!
David
Of course one might also suggest that a probably-incompetent employer might
also have three similar aspects (aka stereotyes) in mind for younger applicants
in the "age" factor category
+ lack of attention span, likelihood of worktime lost through alcohol
excesses and sickies. Can exceptions be detected?
+ lack of experience which leads to mistakes resulting in loss of
productivity
+ under qualified. Is this person going to be employable without requiring
excessive damage or supervision?
Incompetent and dishonest managers and employers might use silly stereotypes in
just about any direction... including race, sex and religious discrimination.
They're incompetent because their criteria based on stereotyping are not
merely inefficient as recruiting practice (let's leave aside morality for the
present) but also risk some nasty consequences. The reality is, of course,
that these silly stereotypes are most likely to be applied when work
opportunities are shrinking.
But the answer is not, as you appear to suggest, to find a way for people to
pretend they're not black or for them to meekly just head off and find jobs
"suitable" for black people. (s/black/aged s/aged/young)
And having set aside the morality briefly, let's take it into account here.
If employers and managers get benefits in their business from the rule of law
(as they all do) they might consider a requirement to follow obligations under
that system, like obeying the law.
Might it not be slightly relevant in here somewhere that the practices you
suggest are involved for employers are actually ILLEGAL?
The laws are weak in application, as equality laws were in the world of the
Alabamas. So the laws need to be strengthened. Governments, employers who
bleat about baby boomers being a drag on the economy need to have it pointed
out to them that failure to strengthen and enforce the law and failures to obey
it are within their areas of responsibility.
If they want us to keep off their welfare system and stop being a drain on
superannuation funds, there's a simple answer: do what you say you have a
responsibility to do: avoid discrimination, and allow us to work, raising the
barriers that prevent us from doing it.
No, stuff it! All these arguments that I should just go quietly to the back
of the bus are unacceptable.
-PeterM
--
Bob Trussler
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