So, the whole thing with manually adding neutral patches has got me thinking. The standard approach to generating test patches makes perfect sense for the general case: you have no idea what colors you'll wind up printing, so you want some sort of even distribution of colors to make sure everything gets as close as possible. However, as a photographer, none of my photographs actually has an even distribution of colors. Usually, just a few parts of the spectrum predominate. And black and white is just a special case of that -- the colors are tightly bunched along the middle of the Lab volume, rather than clumped in a couple areas. What I'm thinking of to better address profiling for photography would require two things (which, for all I know, might already be possible to do with Argyll): the ability to generate test patches from an image, and the ability to merge chart readings with earlier ones after the fact. You would start with a profile built the same way as is normal today. Then, when you wanted to make a high-quality print of a particular image, you'd create a chart tuned to the colors used in the image, print it, read it, and generate a new profile that includes the original data as well as the new data. Over time, you'd wind up with a profile built from tens of thousands of samples, all drawn from the actual images being printed. Plus, you wouldn't have to spend the time it takes to create a profile from such a large sample set all at once -- after all, adding a few minutes to the time of making a special print isn't that significant, but spending an entire day creating and reading a dozens-of-thousands sample chart would be most annoying. Thoughts? Suggestions? Cheers, b&