Lori, I am relatively new to embroidery (Nov 04) and all I have right now is the WACF. It took quite a few hats (50 or 60) to get the hang of hooping it correctly. Now that I have learned to hoop it, I do appreciate that it can sew the sides at the same time as the front. Just try to get someone experienced show you the important issues with the hat. You have to make sure the hat is caught properly in the little teeth, and make sure it is seated into the teeth. Give it a little pull from the back and push it into the teeth. Then close the teeth and when its closed pull the bill back to make sure those teeth are caught. It's easy to close the cap frame but those teeth aren't properly interlaced. I don't use the clips on the side for two reasons, time and without them the hat can "breathe a little bit" as a wise man on this list pointed out to me. There's my two cents from a novice. Cheryl Rotter Team Sports Ink 5111 Grumann Dr. Ste #1B Carson City, NV 89706 775-884-3550 -----Original Message----- From: amayausers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:amayausers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tellall Stitches Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 7:01 PM To: amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [amayausers] Cap Frames Hi team, we are struggling all the time with low profile hats, the conventional cap frame just seems to way to deep. Does anyone have the WACF? Does it work good? Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Lori & Dean