Good point, George. Nothing will be achieved by moaning here!
Alison
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
George Bell
Sent: 07 December 2015 13:54
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: ueb and SEB for banks statements
Hi Derek, (And Clive)
No problem. However I do think it's time that braille readers took these
issues up with those who are providing it.
I could yell about the typographical errors in Kindle books for example, but
I've had better response making contact with the authors. All without
exception have thanked me and acknowledged how this distracts from their
story.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 07 December 2015 12:47
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: ueb and SEB for banks statements
Hi George
Ok sorry!
it was only because of what you said to Clive, that i then gave the
examples.
Regards, Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
George Bell
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 12:30 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: ueb and SEB for banks statements
Hi Derek,
This is not the list to discuss such detailed issues (Braille-uk is more
appropriate), and even then, I suggest you take the issue up with HSBC, who
should refer it back to their transcriber for an explanation.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 07 December 2015 12:17
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: ueb and SEB for banks statements
Hi George
Here is an example of what I don't understand.
It's the use of lower b
Firstly on bank statement where it gives my name it gives:
the uppercase indicator ok but the lower b is used like this:
Mr Derek J Hornby
The letter J has dots 2 3 just before the upper case indicator.
Also where it says
Account type HSBC The HSBC correctly shows double upper case sign,
but also has dots 2 3 just before the first upper case sign.
so what is the need for the lower B in the examples above?
Many thanks
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
George Bell
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 11:24 AM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: ueb and SEB for banks statements
Hi Clive and all,
This kind of rubbish stems from poorly informed and poorly trained
transcribers, and I'm sorry to say that it is this kind of thing which is
causing readers to consider UEB a pain to read. Frankly, I don't blame
people for being upset.
Given the very clear rules below, I would respectfully suggest that strongly
worded complaints be made direct to the producers or suppliers of the
braille, referring to these rules.
I know that with at least one very widely used braille translation program,
it is simply a case of checking a box to ignore, bold, underline and or
italic.
The UEB Rules state
9.1.1 Despite wide use of different typeforms in print, it is not always
necessary to indicate them when transcribing into braille. For example,
print will commonly use a distinctive typeface for headings.
This usage is generally ignored in braille where formatting will distinguish
the headings from the rest of text. Also the print practice of italicising
all variables in technical material is ignored.
9.1.2 Typeform indicators are considered necessary in braille when the print
change in typeform is significant because it indicates emphasis or shows
distinction, e.g. foreign words in English text, titles within text, subject
headings on paragraphs, silent thought, computer input distinguished from
computer output, or the class of a variable in mathematics.
9.1.3 When it cannot be determined whether or not a change of typeform is
significant, indicate the change.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 07 December 2015 11:00
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: ueb and SEB for banks statements
Hello Alison,
I quote again the example of an RNIB magazine in which I read the word But,
written as the letter B, but with seven cells worth of spilled sugar to tell
me that the B was capitalised, it was in bold face, and so on. If the visual
effects are crucial, as they could be in a textbook, I can see the need to
represent everything but the kitchen sink,
dot-splurge-dash-dot-squiggle-but, couldn't braille producers take a more
pragmatic, space-saving approach in, say, articles in Upbeat about the
latest Bob Dylan Official Bootleg compilation?
Best,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
CJ &AA MAY
Sent: 07 December 2015 08:28
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: ueb and SEB for banks statements
I can see the benefits of UEB (although the differences in code was never a
barrier to reading other countries' material) and I can even see why changes
needed to be made. However I deeply resent having capitalisation imposed on
me and the need to read all that clutter before reaching the text. And I
strongly resent that the code should have been imposed without any sort of
vote (and we all know why this was - it wouldn't have been voted for!) I can
imagine the uproar if the UK Government suddenly decided that all English
speaking countries should use the same spelling and that in future all
publications would use the American style of spelling!
In truth I don't know how the code could have been amended to meet
everyone's needs but I really can see no reason why British publications now
are forced to use capitalisation and show font changes.
Alison
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Steve Nutt
Sent: 07 December 2015 08:21
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: ueb and SEB for banks statements
Hi Alison,
Does it not make sense to you that at last, UK and US Braille for example,
will be the same? Cross-border reading will be easier.
Ambiguous contractions are gone? I can only see good from UEB personally.
All the best
Steve
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
CJ &AA MAY
Sent: 06 December 2015 22:14
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: ueb and SEB for banks statements
No, my bank and credit card statements still come in SEB - hurray!
Sorry, I do see the argument that UEB is here to stay and that the more
often we are exposed to it, the better able we will be to deal with it but I
still feel very angry and resentful how this new code has been imposed upon
us.
Alison
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 06 December 2015 21:18
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] ueb and SEB for banks statements
Hi All
To those of you that receive a Braille bank statement, is it now using the
new Braille code?
My bank HSBC now uses the new UEB code.
Well I am wondering if we have any right to a choice code used.
I don't want to get in to a discussion about the reasons for the change,
but rather, discuss the right to a choice of code used.
Well we can choose grade 1 or grade 2 Braille.
So why not a choice for the Braille code.
Not sure how the transcription software would manage it!
Regards, Derek
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