[THIN] Re: CCIA
- From: "Roy" <thin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:26:02 -0700
The whole certification thing really gets everyone worked up.
I once worked for a company that let the group that performed the best
keep a 3" tall plastic Bugs Bunny in their area to show that they had
out performed the other groups.
That bunny was important to them.
Almost every company has a reward / recognition program. Name in an
e-mail, a paper certificate, plastic disk, whatever.
That is important to them.
Some it is certification by vendor, some are vendor neutral.
Some barely care if the job is done right or not.
Let's get real. Are you going to tell me that everyone you've ever met
in this industry with over 10 years of experience was great? I can
introduce you to a few backup operators that have sat in front of a UNIX
console and loaded paper into a printer for 10 years and couldn't tell
you the difference between cron, and Tron the movie. (yes, I do know
what it means to "trace-on" but I was having trouble coming up with
something witty)
10 years of "enterprise computing experience" and would you make them a
power user let alone give them any real rights?
We have all met the "Paper MCSE"s and "Vapor MCSE"s. But I would still
appreciate that someone took the time to learn something and tried to
get into this industry.
I have also met some very bright people that remembered every bit of
their certification information and solved trouble tickets in 5 seconds
because they knew what versions of Windows 95 and NT supported USB.
Tickets that had sat in queue waiting for 2nd level support to try
shoving the rectangular USB peg in the PS2 round hole for 2 weeks not
realizing that it was an OPERATING SYSTEM issue even though the PC had
physical USB ports.
Regardless, This isn't the 18th century where impacting 1,000 people in
your lifetime was unheard of. Anyone with minimal resources can put up
a website and with hard work, knowledge and experience could make a
dramatic impact on the computing world.
Jim, this list and thethin.net is a perfect example. I don't know if
Jim is certified in any way by any vendor, and it isn't an important
thing for me to know. (I would definitely congratulate him for any work
he put in that area because it was worth at least $100+ per test to
him.) But the real point is that out of the millions of Citrix CALS
floating around representing millions of users spending millions of
hours of time using applications on Citrix and Terminal Services, a
significant amount of that was affected by one person.
Jim, the list, and thethin.net has:
1. prevented downtime because of what admins found out beforehand.
2. reduced downtime because the fix was posted.
3. allowed applications that wouldn't work to work because of the help
provided.
4. made admins feel comfortable to try the technology and recommend it.
5. help admins through the trial and deployment phase.
6. and probably helped a few get certified too.
By the way, where do we draw the line? I can go along with the "no
braindumps". But what about test prep software? Or certification
books. What about deployment specific books? Is it OK to learn only
real world information and if you get certified that way it's OK? Is it
wimpy to take a class? "real" admins learn on their own, they don't
need help from easy sources like mail-lists or websites. In fact the
only "real" admin I've seen is the character Tom Hanks played in the
little known sequel to "Cast Away" where he ends up on another island
and Wilson helps him build his own operating system based on kelp and
coconuts, develops enterprise applications by himself and opens up a
software company when he gets rescued because people who get certified
and use software other people write are wimps.
If you are certified and you envy people who are successful that are not
certified, get over it.
If you are not certified and you envy people who are successful that are
certified, get over it.
If people aren't impressed because of your experience, get over it.
If people aren't impressed because of your certifications, get over it.
Many of us are lucky to get to do a job that involves technology. When I
was in college slapping pizzas for minimum wage and my only computer was
my IBM PCjr, I couldn't wait to get home to dial up to a BBS on my own
time. 20 years later I get paid to play on a network that is connected
to the world.
Certified or not, vendor or re-seller requirements or not, the bottom
line is that we get to do what we do because of the users. They
couldn't care less if we have experience, certifications, or frilly
underpants for that matter, they have a job to do.
We look down on them just like some look down on those that can't tune
an engine, change a diaper, speak the home language, derive the
quadratic equation, or identify complimentary colors and wear white
after Labor Day.
My daughters are more impressed that I can make pizzas than that I know
what "Silly Window Syndrome" is. Some are more impressed that I'm
certified to hang people out of helicopters on ropes or fire the M-60
machine gun than my 5 CCA's. Heck, I've been in a few data centers
where I've wised I HAD an M-60 rather than a CCA.
There are things we can influence. There are things we can't influence.
My $0.02.
Sorry to start my whining. I couldn't resist.
rat
Thank you,
Roy A. Tokeshi
CCEA, CCI, MCDBA, MCSE, MCT
roy@xxxxxxxxxxx
www.tokeshi.com
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Stansel, Paul
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 8:24 AM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
Well, the CCIA will include a practical, so it's better than nothing.
But
let's be honest, ANY exam that is purely questions on a computer screen
can
be crammed for and passed. Do many earn it the real way? Sure. But
given
the horrendous quality of many exam questions (Citrix was the absolute
worst
for a while) you almost HAVE to know how they are asking the questions
to
interpret the answer they want. Sadly, it's not always black and white.
-Paul
> ----------
> From: Charlie Fraser[SMTP:fraserc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Reply To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 11:19 AM
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
>
> I have a couple of comments and issues concerning this thread. I have
> been working with Citrix for over 3 years and I am taking my last CCEA
> test on Monday. I don't like the sneers I get with my cert mostly from
> people who don't believe in getting certified. I get certifications
for
> 2 reasons 1) is my boss thinks their useful and encourages me and 2)
> Personal and professional satisfaction.
>
> I think we need to take a step back and look at what these certs mean.
> To me a CCA, CCEA, MCSE, etc.... indicates a understanding of the
> product not expertise and it does not indicate real like experience.
Now
> even if you do the boot camp or the cram tools if you pass the test
you
> still are coming away with an understanding of the product a starting
> point. It is what you do with the knowledge after that counts. I
looked
> at the Experience/Certifcation site and it is good, but who will
> actually do it? how much will it cost? and who has that kind of time
to
> put into it? That cert is good for someone looking for a job or a
better
> one. But what about the average professional who is looking for the
> prestige and perhaps a raise?
>
> What I think is needed (any Citrix/Microsoft people on this list take
> note) is an expert standing of these certifications which require
> measurements besides the multiple guess tests. I think if this was
done
> more good professionals would go for these certs. I think a cert needs
> to be attainable and easy to complete and by easy I mean process not
> required knowledge or skill level. For example hypothetically an
> expert CCEA would require the following:
>
> 1 year as a CCEA.
> 1 Year managing a Citrix Environment
> Sponsorship from a reseller or Citrix sales/technical sales person.
> A written case study detailing a Citrix project your worked on.
> A proctored written exam where you have to solve real world problems.
> This exam would be graded much like a bar exam where 2 Expert CCEA's
> would score the exam. And in the event of a failure a third would
review
> it.
>
> This would make those of us who earned our certs feel better and still
> encourage newbees to try for it. I think the paper certs serve a
purpose
> and should be a starting point not and end all. Any employer worth
their
> salt know it's not just a cert but a combination of experience and
cert.
> That said a professional cert should not be as hard as getting an MBA
> because that would discourage the average professional for trying for
> it. Just my opinion.
>
> Charlie Fraser
> Systems Engineer
> Montclair State University
>
> Tony Lyne wrote:
>
> >For sure, we have to do the same thing.
> >
> >I would have less of a problem with the certification thing if these
=
> >bootcamps etc and paper certified individuals were not around.
> >
> >Tony Lyne
> >Senior Systems Engineer=20
> >Computerland Central=20
> >P O Box 1470=20
> >PALMERSTON NORTH
> >Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
> >Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
> >Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
> >E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
********************************************************
This Week's Sponsor - Appsense Technologies
New! AppSense Optimizer is a new product from AppSense
designed to increase the user capacity of your servers.
http://www.appsense.com/
**********************************************************
Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
http://thethin.net/links.cfm
For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or
set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
Other related posts:
