[THIN] Re: CCIA
- From: "Tony Lyne" <Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 09:18:26 +1200
Theres a few flaws with this.
Youre assuming people wont abuse this and get confused by these =
certifications.
I would hate to see a high school student (teenager) with a CCEA, with =
only paper experience. Even when viewing the CCEA from what youre =
suggesting would open up a whole can of worms as many would see their =
cert as a right to play with things. Remember little knowledge is =
dangerous in this industry when playing with production systems. =
Especially when thousands of users are effected by one screw-up.
This idea could work if it was treated like an appreticeship (motor =
mechanic). Where they would have to work as a kind of understudy to a =
senior level engineer. This engineer would then be responsible for their =
training, mentoring etc.
Also, most basic MCSE's could install a terminal server. But an =
experienced, certified engineer/consultant with years of experience =
would be able to design and implement/document and build the terminal =
server properly and make it suit the business needs. Were dealing with =
business tools here not a mere techy play thing. These solutions need to =
suit business requirements.
The reason why this is such a hot point for me personally. As Im =
currently involved with a client where a contractor 'installed' their =
Citrix farm and sure it works. But there is not one ounce of business or =
strategic planning in its design. The client will be pissed because this =
contractor miss-informed the client on certain things and didn't design =
the farm to suit their business. Now this contractor is going to other =
clients saying 'sure I can build Citrix farms'.
That's my point!!
Tony Lyne
Senior Systems Engineer=20
Computerland Central=20
P O Box 1470=20
PALMERSTON NORTH
Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =
information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are =
not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =
dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me =
immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Thank =
you.
=A0
-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie Fraser [mailto:fraserc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=20
Sent: Saturday, 7 June 2003 3:20 a.m.
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
I have a couple of comments and issues concerning this thread. I have=20
been working with Citrix for over 3 years and I am taking my last CCEA=20
test on Monday. I don't like the sneers I get with my cert mostly from=20
people who don't believe in getting certified. I get certifications for=20
2 reasons 1) is my boss thinks their useful and encourages me and 2)=20
Personal and professional satisfaction.
I think we need to take a step back and look at what these certs mean.=20
To me a CCA, CCEA, MCSE, etc.... indicates a understanding of the=20
product not expertise and it does not indicate real like experience. Now =
even if you do the boot camp or the cram tools if you pass the test you=20
still are coming away with an understanding of the product a starting=20
point. It is what you do with the knowledge after that counts. I looked=20
at the Experience/Certifcation site and it is good, but who will=20
actually do it? how much will it cost? and who has that kind of time to=20
put into it? That cert is good for someone looking for a job or a better =
one. But what about the average professional who is looking for the=20
prestige and perhaps a raise?
What I think is needed (any Citrix/Microsoft people on this list take=20
note) is an expert standing of these certifications which require=20
measurements besides the multiple guess tests. I think if this was done=20
more good professionals would go for these certs. I think a cert needs=20
to be attainable and easy to complete and by easy I mean process not=20
required knowledge or skill level. For example hypothetically an=20
expert CCEA would require the following:
1 year as a CCEA.
1 Year managing a Citrix Environment
Sponsorship from a reseller or Citrix sales/technical sales person.
A written case study detailing a Citrix project your worked on.
A proctored written exam where you have to solve real world problems.=20
This exam would be graded much like a bar exam where 2 Expert CCEA's=20
would score the exam. And in the event of a failure a third would review =
it.
This would make those of us who earned our certs feel better and still=20
encourage newbees to try for it. I think the paper certs serve a purpose =
and should be a starting point not and end all. Any employer worth their =
salt know it's not just a cert but a combination of experience and cert. =
That said a professional cert should not be as hard as getting an MBA=20
because that would discourage the average professional for trying for=20
it. Just my opinion.
Charlie Fraser
Systems Engineer
Montclair State University
Tony Lyne wrote:
>For sure, we have to do the same thing.
>
>I would have less of a problem with the certification thing if these =
=3D
>bootcamps etc and paper certified individuals were not around.
>
>Tony Lyne
>Senior Systems Engineer=3D20
>Computerland Central=3D20
>P O Box 1470=3D20
>PALMERSTON NORTH
>Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
>Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
>Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
>E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
>CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =3D
>information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are =
=3D
>not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =3D
>dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =3D
>prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me =
=3D
>immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Thank =
=3D
>you.
>=3DA0
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jeff.o'connor@xxxxxxxxxxxxx =
[mailto:jeff.o'connor@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20
>Sent: Friday, 6 June 2003 3:16 p.m.
>To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
>
>To maintain Platinum Citrix Partner status. Most of our Citrix =
engineers =3D
>
>had to complete the CCEA. There is a minimum number of CCA's and =
CCEA's=3D20
>required.
>It could be a bit of fluff for sure, but to customers it sometimes=3D20
>demonstrates knowledge at a certain level. Rather than the kid down =
the=3D20
>road who has installed it once or twice.
>
>Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"Tony Lyne" <Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent by: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>06/06/2003 12:36 PM
>Please respond to thin
>=3D20
> To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> cc:=3D20
> Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
>
>
>Yep, Im always being hassled by my boss to get mine sorted but time is =
=3D
>=3D3D
>the big factor.=3D3D20
>
>The CCEA cert thing has become a bit like MCSE, since all of these cram =
=3D
>=3D3D
>sites and papers came out, its appears to be loosing credibility.
>
>Basically you either can or cannot do the stuff, references always =
speak =3D
>=3D3D
>more than certifications.
>
>Heres a thought, why doesn't the IT industry adopt a fellowship thing =
=3D
>=3D3D
>like doctors. Get rid of these paper certified dudes and companies who =
=3D
>=3D3D
>are making a killing from these get certified quick schemes.
>
>
>Tony Lyne
>Senior Systems Engineer=3D3D20
>Computerland Central=3D3D20
>P O Box 1470=3D3D20
>PALMERSTON NORTH
>Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
>Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
>Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
>E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
>CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =3D3D
>information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are =
=3D
>=3D3D
>not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =3D3D
>dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =3D3D
>prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me =
=3D
>=3D3D
>immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Thank =
=3D3D
>you.
>=3D3DA0
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ron Oglesby [mailto:roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D20
>Sent: Friday, 6 June 2003 2:24 p.m.
>To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
>
>Sure. There was a big rush early (in the resller community for sure)
>Then after about 500-600 were through it slowed down some. But there =
are
>a lot of them
>
>Ron Oglesby
>Senior Technical Architect
>=3D3D3D20
>RapidApp
>Office 312.372.7188
>Mobile 815.325.7618
>email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>=3D3D3D20
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tony Lyne [mailto:Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D3D20
>Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:24 PM
>To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
>
>People actually bother doing the CCEA exams?
>
>Tony Lyne
>Senior Systems Engineer=3D3D3D3D20
>Computerland Central=3D3D3D3D20
>P O Box 1470=3D3D3D3D20
>PALMERSTON NORTH
>Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
>Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
>Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
>E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
>CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =
=3D3D3D3D
>information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are =
=3D
>=3D3D
>=3D3D3D
>=3D3D3D3D
>not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =3D3D3D3D
>dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =3D
>=3D3D3D3D
>prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me
>=3D3D3D3D
>immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Thank =
=3D3D
>=3D3D3D3D
>you.
>=3D3D3D3DA0
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ron Oglesby [mailto:roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D3D3D20
>Sent: Friday, 6 June 2003 1:49 p.m.
>To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
>
>The exams are not available yet (I think q3 is the date now). But I
>doubt there will be a lot of these guys outside of resellers.
>
>Simple reason is that it is really like an in-depth MetaFrame Admin
>course that gets more into the services and the =
architecture.=3D3D3D3D3D20
>
>Once you take the written exam (computer based obviously) and pass then
>you will have to go to Citrix and take a hands-on much like the CCIE. =
Of
>course you have to pay for it, and travel... much more than spending a
>Saturday morning at Silvan for 100 bucks.
>
>Now I THINK that resellers might be able to use some other funds for
>this. But even if they cant most will be required to keep one of these
>guys on staff anyway and will for up for their top Citrix guy.
>
>I mean when the CCEA first came out we all thought it was the biggest
>thing in the reseller community. Hell I even took everything in beta so
>I could get a cool "original CCEA" jacket from them for the first 50
>guys to get the cert. But alas now it is no big deal and I don't even
>know where the jacket is anymore.
>
>
>
>Ron Oglesby
>Senior Technical Architect
>=3D3D3D3D3D20
>RapidApp
>Office 312.372.7188
>Mobile 815.325.7618
>email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>=3D3D3D3D3D20
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sergio Blum [mailto:sergio@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D3D3D3D20
>Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 8:43 PM
>To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [THIN] CCIA
>
>Does anyone know anything about the CCIA certification.=3D3D3D3D3D3D20
>Have they already launched the the exam?
>Have anyone already made it?
>
>
>________________________________________=3D3D3D3D3D3D20
>Sergio Adriano Blum - www.sisnema.com.br=3D3D3D3D3D3D20
>MCP - MCSA - MCDBA - MCSE - CCA - CCEA
> ByBLUM Developments
>
>Microsoft Certified System Engineer
>Microsoft Certified Database Administrator
>Citrix Certified Enterprise Administrator
>________________________________________
>
>********************************************************
>This Week's Sponsor - Appsense Technologies
>New! AppSense Optimizer is a new product from AppSense=3D3D3D3D3D20
>designed to increase the user capacity of your servers.=3D3D3D3D3D20
>http://www.appsense.com/
>**********************************************************
>Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
>http://thethin.net/links.cfm
>
>For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=3D3D3D3D3D20
>set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
>http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
>********************************************************
>This Week's Sponsor - Appsense Technologies
>New! AppSense Optimizer is a new product from AppSense=3D3D3D3D20
>designed to increase the user capacity of your servers.=3D3D3D3D20
>http://www.appsense.com/
>**********************************************************
>Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
>http://thethin.net/links.cfm
>
>For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=3D3D3D3D20
>set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
>http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
>********************************************************
>This Week's Sponsor - Appsense Technologies
>New! AppSense Optimizer is a new product from AppSense=3D3D3D20
>designed to increase the user capacity of your servers.=3D3D3D20
>http://www.appsense.com/
>**********************************************************
>Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
>http://thethin.net/links.cfm
>
>For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=3D3D3D20
>set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
>http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
>********************************************************
>This Week's Sponsor - Appsense Technologies
>New! AppSense Optimizer is a new product from AppSense=3D3D20
>designed to increase the user capacity of your servers.=3D3D20
>http://www.appsense.com/
>**********************************************************
>Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
>http://thethin.net/links.cfm
>
>For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=3D3D20
>set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
>http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
>********************************************************
>This Week's Sponsor - Appsense Technologies
>New! AppSense Optimizer is a new product from AppSense=3D20
>designed to increase the user capacity of your servers.=3D20
>http://www.appsense.com/
>**********************************************************
>Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
>http://thethin.net/links.cfm
>
>For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=3D20
>set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
>http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
>
>
>
>********************************************************
>This Week's Sponsor - Appsense Technologies
>New! AppSense Optimizer is a new product from AppSense=3D20
>designed to increase the user capacity of your servers.=3D20
>http://www.appsense.com/
>**********************************************************
>Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
>http://thethin.net/links.cfm
>
>For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=3D20
>set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
>http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
>********************************************************
>This Week's Sponsor - Appsense Technologies
>New! AppSense Optimizer is a new product from AppSense=20
>designed to increase the user capacity of your servers.=20
>http://www.appsense.com/
>**********************************************************
>Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
>http://thethin.net/links.cfm
>
>For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=20
>set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
>http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
> =20
>
********************************************************
This Week's Sponsor - Appsense Technologies
New! AppSense Optimizer is a new product from AppSense=20
designed to increase the user capacity of your servers.=20
http://www.appsense.com/
**********************************************************
Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
http://thethin.net/links.cfm
For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=20
set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
********************************************************
This Week's Sponsor - Appsense Technologies
New! AppSense Optimizer is a new product from AppSense
designed to increase the user capacity of your servers.
http://www.appsense.com/
**********************************************************
Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
http://thethin.net/links.cfm
For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or
set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
Other related posts:
