[THIN] Re: CCIA
- From: Charlie Fraser <fraserc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:19:57 -0400
I have a couple of comments and issues concerning this thread. I have
been working with Citrix for over 3 years and I am taking my last CCEA
test on Monday. I don't like the sneers I get with my cert mostly from
people who don't believe in getting certified. I get certifications for
2 reasons 1) is my boss thinks their useful and encourages me and 2)
Personal and professional satisfaction.
I think we need to take a step back and look at what these certs mean.
To me a CCA, CCEA, MCSE, etc.... indicates a understanding of the
product not expertise and it does not indicate real like experience. Now
even if you do the boot camp or the cram tools if you pass the test you
still are coming away with an understanding of the product a starting
point. It is what you do with the knowledge after that counts. I looked
at the Experience/Certifcation site and it is good, but who will
actually do it? how much will it cost? and who has that kind of time to
put into it? That cert is good for someone looking for a job or a better
one. But what about the average professional who is looking for the
prestige and perhaps a raise?
What I think is needed (any Citrix/Microsoft people on this list take
note) is an expert standing of these certifications which require
measurements besides the multiple guess tests. I think if this was done
more good professionals would go for these certs. I think a cert needs
to be attainable and easy to complete and by easy I mean process not
required knowledge or skill level. For example hypothetically an
expert CCEA would require the following:
1 year as a CCEA.
1 Year managing a Citrix Environment
Sponsorship from a reseller or Citrix sales/technical sales person.
A written case study detailing a Citrix project your worked on.
A proctored written exam where you have to solve real world problems.
This exam would be graded much like a bar exam where 2 Expert CCEA's
would score the exam. And in the event of a failure a third would review
it.
This would make those of us who earned our certs feel better and still
encourage newbees to try for it. I think the paper certs serve a purpose
and should be a starting point not and end all. Any employer worth their
salt know it's not just a cert but a combination of experience and cert.
That said a professional cert should not be as hard as getting an MBA
because that would discourage the average professional for trying for
it. Just my opinion.
Charlie Fraser
Systems Engineer
Montclair State University
Tony Lyne wrote:
>For sure, we have to do the same thing.
>
>I would have less of a problem with the certification thing if these =
>bootcamps etc and paper certified individuals were not around.
>
>Tony Lyne
>Senior Systems Engineer=20
>Computerland Central=20
>P O Box 1470=20
>PALMERSTON NORTH
>Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
>Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
>Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
>E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
>CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =
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>dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =
>prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me =
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>you.
>=A0
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jeff.o'connor@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jeff.o'connor@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]=20
>Sent: Friday, 6 June 2003 3:16 p.m.
>To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
>
>To maintain Platinum Citrix Partner status. Most of our Citrix engineers =
>
>had to complete the CCEA. There is a minimum number of CCA's and CCEA's=20
>required.
>It could be a bit of fluff for sure, but to customers it sometimes=20
>demonstrates knowledge at a certain level. Rather than the kid down the=20
>road who has installed it once or twice.
>
>Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"Tony Lyne" <Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent by: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>06/06/2003 12:36 PM
>Please respond to thin
>=20
> To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> cc:=20
> Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
>
>
>Yep, Im always being hassled by my boss to get mine sorted but time is =
>=3D
>the big factor.=3D20
>
>The CCEA cert thing has become a bit like MCSE, since all of these cram =
>=3D
>sites and papers came out, its appears to be loosing credibility.
>
>Basically you either can or cannot do the stuff, references always speak =
>=3D
>more than certifications.
>
>Heres a thought, why doesn't the IT industry adopt a fellowship thing =
>=3D
>like doctors. Get rid of these paper certified dudes and companies who =
>=3D
>are making a killing from these get certified quick schemes.
>
>
>Tony Lyne
>Senior Systems Engineer=3D20
>Computerland Central=3D20
>P O Box 1470=3D20
>PALMERSTON NORTH
>Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
>Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
>Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
>E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
>CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =3D
>information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are =
>=3D
>not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =3D
>dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =3D
>prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me =
>=3D
>immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Thank =3D
>you.
>=3DA0
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ron Oglesby [mailto:roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20
>Sent: Friday, 6 June 2003 2:24 p.m.
>To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
>
>Sure. There was a big rush early (in the resller community for sure)
>Then after about 500-600 were through it slowed down some. But there are
>a lot of them
>
>Ron Oglesby
>Senior Technical Architect
>=3D3D20
>RapidApp
>Office 312.372.7188
>Mobile 815.325.7618
>email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>=3D3D20
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tony Lyne [mailto:Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D20
>Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:24 PM
>To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
>
>People actually bother doing the CCEA exams?
>
>Tony Lyne
>Senior Systems Engineer=3D3D3D20
>Computerland Central=3D3D3D20
>P O Box 1470=3D3D3D20
>PALMERSTON NORTH
>Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
>Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
>Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
>E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
>CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =3D3D3D
>information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are =
>=3D
>=3D3D
>=3D3D3D
>not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =3D3D3D
>dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =
>=3D3D3D
>prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me
>=3D3D3D
>immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Thank =3D
>=3D3D3D
>you.
>=3D3D3DA0
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ron Oglesby [mailto:roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D3D20
>Sent: Friday, 6 June 2003 1:49 p.m.
>To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [THIN] Re: CCIA
>
>The exams are not available yet (I think q3 is the date now). But I
>doubt there will be a lot of these guys outside of resellers.
>
>Simple reason is that it is really like an in-depth MetaFrame Admin
>course that gets more into the services and the architecture.=3D3D3D3D20
>
>Once you take the written exam (computer based obviously) and pass then
>you will have to go to Citrix and take a hands-on much like the CCIE. Of
>course you have to pay for it, and travel... much more than spending a
>Saturday morning at Silvan for 100 bucks.
>
>Now I THINK that resellers might be able to use some other funds for
>this. But even if they cant most will be required to keep one of these
>guys on staff anyway and will for up for their top Citrix guy.
>
>I mean when the CCEA first came out we all thought it was the biggest
>thing in the reseller community. Hell I even took everything in beta so
>I could get a cool "original CCEA" jacket from them for the first 50
>guys to get the cert. But alas now it is no big deal and I don't even
>know where the jacket is anymore.
>
>
>
>Ron Oglesby
>Senior Technical Architect
>=3D3D3D3D20
>RapidApp
>Office 312.372.7188
>Mobile 815.325.7618
>email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>=3D3D3D3D20
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sergio Blum [mailto:sergio@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D3D3D20
>Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 8:43 PM
>To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [THIN] CCIA
>
>Does anyone know anything about the CCIA certification.=3D3D3D3D3D20
>Have they already launched the the exam?
>Have anyone already made it?
>
>
>________________________________________=3D3D3D3D3D20
>Sergio Adriano Blum - www.sisnema.com.br=3D3D3D3D3D20
>MCP - MCSA - MCDBA - MCSE - CCA - CCEA
> ByBLUM Developments
>
>Microsoft Certified System Engineer
>Microsoft Certified Database Administrator
>Citrix Certified Enterprise Administrator
>________________________________________
>
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