Tracy If there are more than three inductors, is the automatic calculation of couplint still right? In another word, I do not turn off the calculation of second order coupling. There are five inductor L1, L2, L3, L4, L5. There are coupling between every two conductor. After I added the coupling between (L1, L2), (L2, L3), (L3, L4), (L4, L5), should I still add the other coupling, such as that between (L1, L3), (L1, L4), (L1, L5), (L2, L4), (L2, L5), (L3, L5)? Best Regards Zhangkun 2004.10.26 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tracy Barclay" <Tracy.Barclay@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <zhang_kun@xxxxxxxxxx> Cc: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 7:59 AM Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: high-order coupling between inductors in hspice > Hi Zhangkun, > > If you want to turn off the calculation of second order coupling, set > > .option genk=0 > > in your netlist. > > Tracy Barclay > CAE > Synopsys, Inc. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On > Behalf Of zhangkun 29902 > Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 16:28 > To: Ray Anderson > Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: high-order coupling between inductors in hspice > > > Ray > > I have use matrix method to check the automatic calculation. The following > is my netlist. > > V1 node1 gnd ac 1 > > L1 node1 node2 10mh > L2 gnd node4 8.1mh > L3 gnd node6 6.4mh > > K1 L1 L2 0.9 > K2 L2 L3 0.8888888888 > K3 L1 L3 0.8 > > R1 node2 gnd 50k > R2 node4 gnd 100k > R3 node6 gnd 100k > > The current in V1 is simulated. When there is "K3 L1 L3 0.8", the > simulation result is not correct. When "K3 L1 L3 0.8" is cut, the > simulation result agree with that calculated by means of matrix method and > is correct. > > As you have pointed out, it is dangerous. I agree with you. However, in the > simulation, if there are second-order or higher-order coupling, how to do? > Is it a bug in the tools? > > Best Regards > > Zhangkun > 2004.10.26 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ray Anderson <reanderson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Date: Monday, October 25, 2004 11:08 pm > Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Re: high-order coupling between inductors in hspice > > > . > > > > > > > >Warning: The automatic inductance calculation is only an > > estimation and is > > >accurate for a subset of geometries. The second-order coupling > > >coefficient is simply the product of the two first-order > > coefficients,>which is not correct for many geometries. > > > > > > > > As it says: "which is not correct for many geometries" > > > > I think Andy's example of L1 and L2 close and L3 far falls into > > that > > category. It sounds to me that the auto-calc feature described in > > the > > manual is dangerous at best. > > > > -Ray Anderson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > > List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > > List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > > List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > > List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu