[SI-LIST] Right Angle Bends / MECL Handbook
- From: "Stefan Milnor" <stefan.milnor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "Michael Greim" <mgreim001@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 11:14:03 -0700
Michael -
Yes, this is the book I meant. Thank you for pointing out the on-line
PDF copy. Now I don't have to worry about losing my paper copy. I got my
paper copy back in the days before the web, when you had to be nice to
sales people if you wanted to get any data sheets and application notes.
And, although I did not realize it when I referenced the MECL handbook
this morning, it appears to be the source of the Right Angle Bend
debate, as pointed out by Mr. Lee Ritchy. However, the page referenced
by Lee is wrong - the right angle bend discussion is on (paper copy)
pages 143 and 144 (and, in the PDF version, these are PDF pages 154 and
155).
I don't know who is right on this. Perhaps this part of the MECL book is
flawed, but overall I think this book is a great free resource, with
clear arguments backed by measurements and figures.
And I don't think any of you debating this the last few days got any
work done J
- Stefan
From: Michael Greim [mailto:mgreim001@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 8:47 AM
To: Stefan Milnor
Cc: Lee Ritchey; Scott McMorrow; Julian Ferry; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Re: Right Angle Bends
Stefan,
Did you mean the MECL System Design Handbook?
http://s.eeweb.com/pl/1276642244-MECL-system-design-handbook.pdf
If you are old school and want to do some highlighting you
can also find this on amazon with the classic cover starting
at 0.88.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0006YFW7G/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF
8&condition=used
Job Bob says check it on out.......
Best Regards,
Michael C. Greim
And all this science they don't understand
Is just my job six days a week.....
We will either find a way or make one -Hannibal
In the middle of every difficulty lies opportunity -Al Einstein
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Stefan Milnor
<stefan.milnor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
There were plenty of signal integrity issues in the days of DIPs and
wire wrap. The structures were just bigger. One of my favorite signal
integrity references is the Motorola ECL (Emitter Coupled Logic)
Handbook, long out - of -print. It is amazing what they did in the '60s
with high speed ECL wire-wrap constructions. And everything that you
have been debating can be analyzed and explained with a set of equations
developed in 1862 .....
- Stefan
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Michael Greim
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 5:13 AM
To: Lee Ritchey
Cc: Scott McMorrow; Julian Ferry; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Right Angle Bends
Regarding "myths" and SI, Folks look everywhere and believe
what they "think" is there, and other folks may very well go, yup
it's there. However, they only really "see", when the light is good.
After all, if someone posted something on the SI list, then by
definition
it has to be true because only "the experts" on any given topic post
there.
Unless of course, they are a manager.........;-) or mangler as some
may view it, on items of a technical nature.......8-P......when the
light is good.......8-O.
Everyone knows that if you can't see it then it is not there, much like
the emperors new clothes. Lab correlation and validation will verify
the lack of clothing. Ya myt could sim this as well.
In the days of DIPs there was no need for any signal or power integrity
and a twisted pair was merely two wire wrap wires put into a drill and
the trigger being pulled, and wirewrap established the ideal spiral
serpentining for signal transmission.
That is all............
Best Regards,
Michael C. Greim
And all this science they don't understand
Is just my job six days a week.....
We will either find a way or make one -Hannibal
In the middle of every difficulty lies opportunity -Al Einstein
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Lee Ritchey
<leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> It is odd that those who fret over right angle bends seem to ignore
the
> fact
> that there is at least on at every via where a trace connects. My old
> friend, Dan Murphy, called this "looking where the light is good."
>
> The same engineers used dual in line IC packages by the millions with
as
> many as three right angle bends in each lead. They weren't visible,
so
> they
> didn't count!
>
> --
>
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