[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Fw: [amergsd] Stud Dog Owners
- From: "Liane Fossland" <lfossland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "Susan Madlung" <stormygsd@xxxxxxx>, Elsyd1@xxxxxxx, showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 13:06:10 -0700
Susan is right, we who own stud dogs are just as responsible for helping to
bring these puppies into the world. There will always be problems surfacing
when your stud dog is bred
a great deal and to different bitches.
Sometimes these things do happen, I personally bred my good H/E bitch to a
male good H/E and had a puppy with bad elbows. What you do once you found
that out is what is important. I went as far as had surgery done on this
puppy and then gave him away to a good home. Lots of dollars down the
drain, but I felt responsible but also felt good about what I'd done. My
bitch was spayed.
When you have a stud dog, don't you keep track of the progeny? It just
makes good sense.
So, actually, the stud dog owner should have had a picture of what his dog
and the bitch are able to produce together and if there were any problems
then why do a 3rd and even 4th repeat?
Also, did the owner of the stud dog see the OFA Excellent certification on
the bitch? There is a web site which gives the results of every dog OFA'd,
I think only those who passed are there, am I correct? Can't remember the
web site but one of you I am sure knows.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Lee
> [Original Message]
> From: Susan Madlung <stormygsd@xxxxxxx>
> To: <Elsyd1@xxxxxxx>; <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 8/6/2005 12:03:03 PM
> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Fw: [amergsd] Stud Dog Owners
>
> This explanation is all fine and good.. this could happen to any one of us
> and does.. hindsight is such a wonderful thing..
> the issue, as I see it, is how is the situation being dealt with
> ***now***???
> I certainly would hope people wouldn't go into a breeding knowing problems
> would arise, but how do they respond when(if) problems do come up?? Do you
> ignore the owners of the dogs with problems? Do you turn your back on them
> and say.. "oh, well, we thought we were doing the right thing?" do you
just
> walk away??? or do you make an effort to compensate?
>
> I am not saying the owners of a stud dog are the ones solely responsible..
> that lies completely with the breeder.. however, stud dog owners need to
be
> better informed as to how that person breeding to their stud dog would
> respond to problems that may come up..
> It does take 2 to tango, and those 2 do carry a responsibility.
>
> stud dog owners: it isn't enough to take the fee, do the breeding and walk
> away - know WHO you are dealing with, HOW they demonstrate responsible
> breeding, and find out if they maintain the same ethical standards as you
> do. if you don't, be ready to take some heat if that person who bred to
your
> stud dog is greedy, unethical and irresponsible for the puppies you helped
> produce..
> JMHO..
> Sue Madlung - Shadowacre Reg'd German Shepherds
> http://www.shadowacre.com
> ** WEBPAGE RE-DESIGNED ***
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Elsyd1@xxxxxxx>
> To: <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 9:32 AM
> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Fw: [amergsd] Stud Dog Owners
>
>
> >
> >
> > Hi List, Edie and Jim have asked me to post this message from them
> regarding
> > the Judith Hale puppies. Hope this clears things up, and stops the
> gossip.
> > Thanks. Syd
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 8/5/2005 9:59:23 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > GSDHALLMARK@xxxxxxx writes:
> >
> >
> > Geez, things can get squishy around here.
> >
> > Okay, let's start from the beginning.
> >
> > Sonny is OFA good, DJD 1 in one elbow. He is German bred w/ some of
the
> top
> > bloodlines in Germany. Every dog in his pedigree has good hips, has to
> by
> > German standards.
> >
> > Sonny was used on other bitches before the breedings to Gigi (of which
we
> > have no ownership). The litters were vibrant and healthy.
> >
> > He was then bred to Gigi, who we were told is OFA Excellent. Ch. Azeri
> > (Annie) was a product of that breeding. She was prelimmed and we were
> told her
> > hips were good. Victory kennels have managed her career since she was
> sold
> > and have done a wonderful job w/ her.
> >
> > The breeder bred Gigi again to Sonny. This litter produced Callie -
> owned
> > by Victory Kennels and co-owned by us, Hallmark - (5 of 7 specialty BP
> from
> > the start and went WB and RWB her first time in the adult classes-thank
> you Ken
> > and Kathy) and Cherry. We bought Cherry from the breeder and when we
had
> > her prelimmed, the vet said she could maybe go fair. That obviously
> wasn't
> > good enough to remain in our breeding program so we placed her in a
> wonderful
> > pet home.
> >
> > Callie's x-rays looked good so the breeder bred Gigi again to Sonny.
> Again,
> > remember this was an OFA good dog w/ all good hips behind him bred to
an
> OFA
> > Excellent bitch.
> >
> > This litter produced some awesome boys! A friend of ours bought one
from
> > the breeder and had him x-rayed and everything looked awesome. This
pup
> is
> > being shown and herding 3 x a week and is like a genius!
> >
> > We just found out a month ago, one of Callie's littermates wouldn't
x-ray
> > from the 2nd litter and one from the 3rd litter wouldn't x-ray-which we
> just
> > found out this week. Mind you, these repeat breedings were performed by
> the
> > breeder with only knowledge of dogs getting prelimmed w/ good hips.
Some
> of
> > the owners didn't have their dogs prelimmed when the repeats were done.
> >
> > At the time the repeats were done, everyone but Cherry was looking very
> good
> > orthopedically.
> >
> > I can only speak for us, as stud dog owners, that we wouldn't have
> allowed
> > any additional breedings if we had known there were bad hips involved.
> >
> > Again, Sonny has been used before, during and after these breedings w/
> Gigi
> > and there have been no problems. It does take TWO dogs to make puppies
> after
> > all.
> >
> > As far as Victory Kennels go, they have managed Annie, bought 1/2 of
> Callie
> > and scooped up 2 pups from the 3rd breeding, one of which Bill Tank
> co-owns
> > (who is a wonderful pup). We all had the same knowledge base of
> orthopedics
> > and as the stud dog owner, we can say that all information we had
gleaned
> was
> > good.
> >
> > All this information just came about in the last few days. It shocked
us
> as
> > just as it has shocked Victory and the owner of the pup in litter #3.
As
> > far as we knew, as far as EVERYONE knew, everything was good.
> >
> > We have learned a few lessons - one of which is to wait longer before
> > allowing repeats. Although, the orthopedic information we HAD received
> at the time
> > of each repeat was good and everyone involved had the same information.
> >
> > We are extremely responsible w/ Sonny and our dogs in general. Anyone
> who
> > knows us knows how much we love and cherish our dogs and the breed.
> Anyone
> > who knows us knows that we wouldn't carelessly and purposefully breed
any
> dogs
> > that produced known faults.
> >
> > We allowed an OFA Excellent bitch to be bred to an OFA Good dog w/ all
> good
> > hips behind him. The bitch comes from one of the top stud dogs in the
> breed
> > and Sonny, too, comes from the best German bloodlines.
> >
> > We allowed these breedings and the repeats because everyone was
> prelimming
> > fine, the pups had tremendous temperaments, work ethics, beauty and
> movement.
> > We continue to believe in Sonny.
> >
> > I hope everyone w/ a stud dog out there reads this, because if your dog
> > produces any problems, no one remembers there is a bitch involved as
well
> and
> > some people turn on you.
> >
> > Jim and Edie Hall
> >
> >
> >
> > Hallmark German Shepherds
> > 'The Best of Both Worlds'
> > Top American And German Lines
> > _www.gsdhallmark.homestead.com/index.html_
> > (http://www.gsdhallmark.homestead.com/index.html)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Syd Mailberg 425-432-4144
> > 23910 SE 276th St
> > Maple Valley, Wa. 98038
> > www.kingswoodgermanshepherds.homestead.com
> >
> >
> >
>
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> >
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> >
>
>
>
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> POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the
original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS
of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author
AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
>
> ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
>
> For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
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POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org
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