[rollei_list] Re: OT: development
- From: Allen Zak <azak@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 23:36:46 -0400
In 50 years of photography I have not once experienced emulsion damage
from using non-hardening fixers.
Allen Zak
On May 20, 2005, at 7:11 PM, Jerry Lehrer wrote:
> Richard,
>
> I seem to recall that sodium chloride was one of the
> components of a hypo eliminator.
>
> BTW, I would be loath to use a non hardening fixer
> ever for film. Of course I used a non hardening fixer
> for PAPER that was going to be toned.
>
> Jerry
>
> Richard Knoppow wrote:
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Allen Zak" <azak@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:06 PM
>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: OT: development
>>
>>>
>>> On May 20, 2005, at 4:21 PM, Richard Knoppow wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Bob Shell" <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 12:17 PM
>>>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: OT: development
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, May 20, 2005, at 02:57 PM, James Davis
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry to follow myself up, I presume that the Ilford
>>>>>> equivalent (for my
>>>>>> local store stocks Ilford) is Ilford Wash Aid? It's not
>>>>>> clear from
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> literature that it's sulfite based.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I never use a wash aid with film. Fixing the film
>>>>> longer
>>>>> and washing
>>>>> properly will get rid of any residual dye. The wash aid
>>>>> won't hurt
>>>>> anything, but I don't think it is really necessary. I
>>>>> do
>>>>> use it on
>>>>> fiber based paper prints, though.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>> It has the same benefit for film as for paper in that
>>>> it
>>>> makes some othewise insoluble fixing reaction products
>>>> soluble, or at least releases them when they are bound up
>>>> to
>>>> image silver or the gelatin. This has the effect of
>>>> extending fixer capacity and insuring complete fixation.
>>>> Wash aid also helps to conserve water where that is
>>>> desirable by reducing film washing time from 30 minutes
>>>> to 5
>>>> minutes.
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Richard Knoppow
>>>> Los Angeles, CA, USA
>>>> dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> Ilford recommends fixing with non-hardening rapid fixer,
>>> no wash aid,
>>> then washing with a technique that usually takes about 5
>>> minutes or
>>> less and uses about three pints (@ 1.5 liters) of water
>>> per roll of
>>> film, assuming SS Nikor style tanks and reels. That's
>>> what I have been
>>> doing for the last decade or so. It is probably too early
>>> to determine
>>> how well my negatives will last, but I'm also old enough
>>> to not really
>>> care. Fortunately, my earlier B&W was processed strictly
>>> to Kodak
>>> specs, which included a wash aid ( Perma Wash) and
>>> therefore will
>>> outlast all meaning.
>>>
>>> Allen Zak
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Rollei List
>>
>> I am not certain what is in Perma-Wash. At least one wash
>> aid on the market seems to be composed of a detergent. I
>> have no idea if this stuff works. I have the vaguest memory
>> of reading an article or paper on detergents as wash aids
>> long ago but have not seen anyting recently. Lets say I am
>> suspicious of it.
>> The test for completeness of washing is the Silver
>> Nitrate test. There are others which are most sensitive but
>> the Silver Nitrate test will show whether the prints have
>> excessive hypo in them. The method is very simple but a more
>> elaborate version, in which the stain spots are fixed, can
>> be used with a densitometer for quantitative measurements.
>> All this stuff is in Kodak literature somewhere.
>> Ilford's procedure is premised on the idea that fixing
>> time should be so short that hypo can not work its way into
>> the paper fibers. Washing is a diffusion process except for
>> this condition of paper base. Once the hypo becomes adsorbed
>> onto the interstices of the fibers they tend to bind there
>> and it is at least partially a frictional process to remove
>> them. Sulfite acts as an ion exchange for thiosulfate so
>> tends to force it out of the fibers. Ilford found that if
>> the fixing process could be completed in less than a minute,
>> preferably in no more than 30 seconds, the hypo did not
>> become bound up in the fibers. After 2 minutes the deed is
>> done and washing must be done conventionally. One problem is
>> that no all paper will fix out in one minute or less.
>> Ilford recommends a ten minute treatment in sulfite wash
>> aid followed by a five minute wash. Ilford also has a water
>> saving method of using successive baths of water. Kodak has
>> a similar regimen but Ilford's probably uses less water.
>> Such a system of successive baths can give perfectly
>> archival washing but has no advantage over running water
>> other than conservation of water and utility where running
>> water is not available.
>>
>> ---
>> Richard Knoppow
>> Los Angeles, CA, USA
>> dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> ---
>> Rollei List
>>
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