Re: programming languages , environments and jaws

  • From: "Will Pearson" <will@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 00:59:56 -0000

Hi Marlon,

You are right to a certain extent. Functions and classes in programming generally perform the same task across different versions; however, programmers can change the task that a function or class performs. To my knowledge the only technology that encourages developers to keep the tasks that their functions and classes perform the same across versions is Microsoft's COM, which has the notion of an immutable interface as part of its design philosophy. On the other hand, finding a function or class that performs different tasks across different versions is quite hard as developers tend to create new functions and classes to perform different tasks.

The other aspect governing whether functions and classes perform the same across different versions is implementation. Developers are often free to change how tasks are performed, and this is true for all technologies including Microsoft's COM. The more technical programs often take advantage of the particular way in which something is implemented to produce specific behaviour in that program. This gives rise to problems when the implementation details change.

So, the functions found in JAWS scripting are likely to give the same behaviourr across different versions but whether they do is due to the will of Freedom Scientific.

Visual Studio 2005 is not entirely reliant on the scripts that have been produced for it; in fact, the goal was actually to develop Visual Studio 2005 so that no scripts were needed. Unfortunately, the versions of JAWS that were around during the development of Visual Studio 2005 didn't use MSAA much and their built in MSAA clients had some serious bugs, such as combining AccName and AccDescription. So, some scripts were needed to handle some parts of Visual Studio 2005, such as the code editor. Most parts of the Visual Studio 2005 user interface just make use of the standard JAWS scripts that JAWS uses by default. So, changes to these will affect how JAWS behaves with Visual Studio 2005.

Will
----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlon Brandão de Sousa" <splyt.lists@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: programming languages , environments and jaws


What I don't understand is the following:
if I use a jaws scripting built in function called a() and this
function is present on jaws from, let's say, 6 and above, and the
documentation says that function a() will return some information,
every script ewhich uses the function a() should act accordingly with
the documentation, and it should act the same way don't mather what
version is used.
Given this, I think, cinse vs 2005 is fully dependant on scripts, vs
.net 2005  should be read the same way in every versions of jaws which
will allow the scripts to compile, I mean that offer suport to the
functions used by these scripts.
The only thing that makes sense for me in explaining why different
versions of jaws act differently is if I assume that the return of
scripting built in functions would be different across them. Is it
right?
Marlon

2007/12/8, Will Pearson <will@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
Hi Marlon,

I would say that version six of JAWS is probably the minimum version for use
with Visual Studio 2005.  Visual Studio 2005 was tested against JAWS
versions between five and seven as these were the versions that were current
or released during the development of Visual Studio 2005.

The versions of JAWS that were tested against Visual Studio 2005 all work
pretty much the same when used with the scripts; however, there is one
problem with version five of JAWS that cannot be fixed by the scripts. The problem is that the off screen model seems to get stuck in an infinite loop,
or performs some other task that seems never ending, when the Solution
Explorer becomes visible under some circumstances. The curcumstance that I
know that causes this is when the Solution Explorer first becomes visible
after creating an MFC project or upgrading a VC project from an earlier
version of Visual C++. This problem doesn't seem to be present in versions
of JAWS later than five.

I can't comment on versions of JAWS above seven from my personal experience.
I don't use JAWS that much these days, and I haven't been inclined to keep
my copy of JAWS up to date.  So, I don't own a copy of version eight.  If
the comments that Dennis made about greater use of MSAA are true, and I
believe them to be given Dennis's former position with Freedom Scientific,
then version eight may be slightly better.

Will
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marlon Brandão de Sousa" <splyt.lists@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: programming languages , environments and jaws


Do the scripts have a minimum jaws version set to run properly? If the
scripts can be compiled and used in jaws 6 I see no reazons why jaws 8
would run better, cinse the scripts will take control of things.
This is not to contradict you, I am curious.
Marlon

2007/12/7, inthaneelf <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
> Marvin,
>
> you might want to take this chance to get your jaws upgraded, I do > believe > that jaws 8 works better with the vs IDE's than does jaws 6, and you > will > need the scripts for VS 2005-2008 that are available from my grab bag > site > (see URL under my name) and can benefit from other materials there for > the
> VS IDE's there as well.
>
> good luck,
> inthane
> . For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and
> Links
> to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me at:
> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
> . to be able to view a simple programming project in several programming
> languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
> http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marlon Brandão de Sousa" <splyt.lists@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 3:42 AM
> Subject: Re: programming languages , environments and jaws
>
>
> > It will work well with all .net 2003 languages, very well with all
> > .net 2005 languages, expectedly well with all .net 2008 languages and
> > it isn't likely to work with .net 2002 languages. Scripts and or lug
> > ins are needed, depending on what version you will be using though.
> > Marlon
> >
> > 2007/12/7, marvin hunkin <marvkin@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
> >>
> >> Hi.
> >> looking to do programming at my college for 2008.
> >> they use visual studio.net.
> >> now, what languages and environments will jaws work with, and not > >> work
> >> with,
> >> so then i can get an idea, of what i need, and to let the it staff, > >> get
> >> the
> >> right version of jaws for me.
> >> using version 6.10, on windows xp pro, sp2, and internet explorer 6.
> >> if you can let me know, would be very appreciative.
> >> cheers marvin.
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> What are you waiting for? Join Lavalife FREE
> >>
>
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D30288&_t=764581033&_r=email_taglines_Join_free_OCT07&_m=EXT
> >
> >
> > --
> > When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows," people just
> > stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, for
> > free."
> > Linus Torvalds
> > __________
> > View the list's information and change your settings at
> > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >
>
>
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When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows," people just
stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, for
free."
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View the list's information and change your settings at
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