Re: Searching for blind programmer to start a school for blind programmers
- From: Dave <davidct1209@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 22:15:58 -0700
Otherwise known as the hack that Jaws was founded upon :).
On 4/7/11, Jackie McBride <abletec@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> osm=offscreen model.
>
> On 4/7/11, John G <jglists0@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> this really is unnecessary, and that is all I have to say on the subject.
>> Kind regards,
>> John
>>
>>
>>>Um radio on acb can be interactive a long time back someone invented this
>>>thing called phones. Grin.
>>>
>>>Ken
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John G
>>>Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 8:25 PM
>>>To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: RE: Searching for blind programmer to start a school for blind
>>>programmers
>>>
>>>But this would be interactive. For example, a lab
>>>session on visual studio. the students would be
>>>given exercises to complete during the session
>>>while the instructor would be there on hand to
>>>help those having access issues, that sort of thing.
>>>John
>>>
>>>
>>> >I had thought of doing a programming radio show on acbradio but I
>>> > thought
>>>it
>>> >was to geaky.
>>> >
>>> >Ken
>>> >
>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>> >From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John G
>>> >Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 5:05 PM
>>> >To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >Subject: Re: Searching for blind programmer to start a school for blind
>>> >programmers
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >What does the list think of the idea of a live
>>> >audio channel as an extension of programming
>>> >Blind and nonvisualdevelopment.org?
>>> >Skype, TeamTalk offer two ways of achieving this goal.
>>> >With the wealth of knowledge on this list I'm
>>> >sure it could become an invaluable source of learning.
>>> >Interactive sessions, lectures if you like, could
>>> >range from accessibility matters to straitforward software engineering.
>>> >for example, programming with VS and JFW or
>>> >Window-Eyes, the basics of programming,
>>> >programming in Java, object oriented analysis and
>>> >design, databases, the list goes on.
>>> >Such a scheme would require organisation and
>>> >discipline to pull off but I have no doubt we've plenty of both on PB.
>>> >
>>> >Kind regards,
>>> >John
>>> >
>>> > >I also am inclined to agree with this. I'm just
>>> > >finished with school and haven't gotten to see
>>> > >first hand just how much of an impact it will
>>> > >have in the workforce, I admit, but I know I
>>> > >learned a lot about not just programming but
>>> > >about working smoothly on a development team
>>> > >otherwise made up of sighted developers by going
>>> > >to a "normal" university for CompSci. My fear
>>> > >would be that in a special environment for blind
>>> > >programming instruction all the tools used for
>>> > >class would be the most accessible ones
>>> > >available. Then a student would get into the
>>> > >work force with an employer who doesn't use
>>> > >those ideal accessible tools and the student
>>> > >would be ill-equipped to problem solve this
>>> > >challenge. I think having a vibrant, active
>>> > >community of blind coders working on things like
>>> > >nonvisualdevelopment.org and contributing to
>>> > >forums like this one is a great way to help
>>> > >address the unique challenges of being a blind
>>> > >coder, but in the grand scheme of things I feel
>>> > >I spend about 10% of my time devoted to
>>> > >programming and related pursuits finding
>>> > >blind-friendly ways of using tools or
>>> > >environments. The other 90% is the same process
>>> > >of learning programming that my sighted peers
>>> > >take on. I also do think there would be issues
>>> > >with many employers disregarding or harboring
>>> > >skepticism of applicants who listed a
>>> > >specialized school for blind people on a resumé.
>>> > >Still, a good idea to kick around and get a variety of prospectives
>>> > > on.
>>> > >On 4/7/2011 3:23 PM, Sina Bahram wrote:
>>> > >>I agree with this as well.
>>> > >>
>>> > >>Take care,
>>> > >>Sina
>>> > >>
>>> > >>-----Original Message-----
>>> > >>From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> > >>[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
>>> > >>Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 1:08 PM
>>> > >>To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> > >>Subject: RE: Searching for blind programmer to
>>> > >>start a school for blind programmers
>>> > >>
>>> > >>I have to say this even though I think there is a place for what
>>> > >> you're
>>> > >>thinking of.
>>> > >>
>>> > >>I hate sepertive schools. One of the things that made me a good
>>> >programmer
>>> > >>was competing against the people I would be competing against in the
>>>work
>>> > >>world In the academic world.
>>> > >>
>>> > >>The salt Lake community college had a class run by novel that taught
>>>blind
>>> > >>people to code for Novel OS but I found the students that came out of
>>> >their
>>> > >>knew a single thing and not very well.
>>> > >>
>>> > >>Now with that said if the standards are high enough a school like
>>> > >> this
>>> >could
>>> > >>be a good benefit but you have to be careful not to dumb down both
>>> > >> the
>>> >speed
>>> > >>of learning or quality thereof. Of course that is true for all
>>> > >> schools.
>>> > >>
>>> > >>One last thing though that the regular schools taught me. That is
>>> > >> part
>>>of
>>> > >>life as a blind coder is finding ways to cope with problems that you
>>> > >> run
>>> > >>into. If you have things handed to you, you might not be as
>>> > >> affective
>>> >when
>>> > >>you get out in the work world.
>>> > >>
>>> > >>Ken
>>> > >>
>>> > >>Ken
>>> > >>-----Original Message-----
>>> > >>From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> > >>[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bill Cox
>>> > >>Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 12:03 PM
>>> > >>To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> > >>Subject: Searching for blind programmer to start a school for blind
>>> > >>programmers
>>> > >>
>>> > >>This is still in the dumb-idea phase, and I don't have any funding
>>> > >>lined up to get this started. That said...
>>> > >>
>>> > >>I have not been able to find any on-line school for teaching blind
>>> > >>people to become professional programmers. I feel the world needs
>>> > >>such an organization. I am not able to start such a school myself,
>>> > >>but I would be interested in assisting social entrepreneurs in
>>> > >>starting such a venture. I it would best be implemented as a
>>> > >>for-profit social entrepreneurial venture. You can read about social
>>> > >>entrepreneurs here:
>>> > >>
>>> > >>http://www.ashoka.org/social_entrepreneur
>>> > >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_entrepreneurship
>>> > >>
>>> > >>I'm thinking it could be a Low Profit Corporation (LPC) founded to
>>> > >> run
>>> > >>the school for a profit. Everyone hired in teaching or management
>>> > >>would be vision impaired or blind. Students would attend classes
>>> > >>on-line, and could be anywhere in the world. Classes would not be
>>> > >>free (maybe $1,000 per 1-semester course?). Students who are too
>>> > >> poor
>>> > >>to pay would be expected to do well in their courses and make up
>>> > >> their
>>> > >>fees by assisting teaching of those courses in later semesters. They
>>> > >>might also be required to work for an associated consulting company
>>> > >> to
>>> > >>earn tuition. Students would be encouraged to help mentor each other
>>> > >>in any case.
>>> > >>
>>> > >>Associated with the school could be a software consulting services
>>> > >>company. The company would only hire vision impaired programmers,
>>> > >> and
>>> > >>students wanting to work for the company could take classes designed
>>> > >>to train them in the skills they'll need. The company might
>>> > >> encourage
>>> > >>it's employees to spend one day a week on FOSS projects of their
>>> > >>interest, which hopefully would include improving accessibility.
>>> > >>
>>> > >>Rough numbers to back up the idea: There are around 15 million
>>> > >> people
>>> > >>with "severe" vision impairments in the US. Roughly half of those
>>> > >>people are too old. Half of the rest may have other impairments that
>>> > >>would prevent them from becoming programmers. In the general
>>> > >>population, there are 1 programmer out of every 500 people in the US.
>>> > >>I would expect a ratio at least that high among the blind, or about
>>> > >>7,500 professional programmers in the US alone. If we took 20 years
>>> > >>to train that many, it'd be 375 new students per year, and assuming a
>>> > >>two year program, we'd have 750 students. If only half paid the
>>> > >> class
>>> > >>fees, but took three classes at a time (a full load), that'd be
>>> > >>$3,000*750*2 = $4.5 million per year. My kids go to a school which
>>> > >>happens to have about 750 students and a budget of just over $4
>>> > >>million per year, and that includes paying for a school. So, that
>>> > >>math seems to work out, but we're not talking about anyone making a
>>> > >>billion dollars in this effort. This is not a VC-fundable idea, but
>>> > >>it might attract funding from groups that invest in socially
>>> > >>beneficial startups.
>>> > >>
>>> > >>I know a couple of good candidates to start this school, and one
>>> > >> might
>>> > >>be interested in actually doing it. Are there any good blind or
>>> > >>vision impaired people you guys could recommend for me to talk to? I
>>> > >>think the key would be finding the right couple of guys.
>>> > >>
>>> > >>Thanks,
>>> > >>Bill
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>
>
> --
> Blame the computer--why not? It can't defend itself & occasionally
> might even be the culprit
> Jackie McBride
> Jaws Scripting training materials:
> www.screenreaderscripting.com
> homePage: www.abletec.serverheaven.net
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