I know one gentleman is offering a weekly class on Window Eyes scripting through TeamTalk on Sunday at 7 PM. The project seems to be going well, although I haven't actually experienced any of the lessons firsthand.
On 4/7/2011 5:04 PM, John G wrote:
What does the list think of the idea of a live audio channel as an extension of programming Blind and nonvisualdevelopment.org? Skype, TeamTalk offer two ways of achieving this goal. With the wealth of knowledge on this list I'm sure it could become an invaluable source of learning. Interactive sessions, lectures if you like, could range from accessibility matters to straitforward software engineering. for example, programming with VS and JFW or Window-Eyes, the basics of programming, programming in Java, object oriented analysis and design, databases, the list goes on. Such a scheme would require organisation and discipline to pull off but I have no doubt we've plenty of both on PB. Kind regards, JohnI also am inclined to agree with this. I'm just finished with school and haven't gotten to see first hand just how much of an impact it will have in the workforce, I admit, but I know I learned a lot about not just programming but about working smoothly on a development team otherwise made up of sighted developers by going to a "normal" university for CompSci. My fear would be that in a special environment for blind programming instruction all the tools used for class would be the most accessible ones available. Then a student would get into the work force with an employer who doesn't use those ideal accessible tools and the student would be ill-equipped to problem solve this challenge. I think having a vibrant, active community of blind coders working on things like nonvisualdevelopment.org and contributing to forums like this one is a great way to help address the unique challenges of being a blind coder, but in the grand scheme of things I feel I spend about 10% of my time devoted to programming and related pursuits finding blind-friendly ways of using tools or environments. The other 90% is the same process of learning programming that my sighted peers take on. I also do think there would be issues with many employers disregarding or harboring skepticism of applicants who listed a specialized school for blind people on a resumé. Still, a good idea to kick around and get a variety of prospectives on. On 4/7/2011 3:23 PM, Sina Bahram wrote:I agree with this as well. Take care, Sina -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 1:08 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: Searching for blind programmer to start a school for blind programmers I have to say this even though I think there is a place for what you're thinking of. I hate sepertive schools. One of the things that made me a good programmer was competing against the people I would be competing against in the work world In the academic world. The salt Lake community college had a class run by novel that taught blind people to code for Novel OS but I found the students that came out of their knew a single thing and not very well. Now with that said if the standards are high enough a school like this could be a good benefit but you have to be careful not to dumb down both the speed of learning or quality thereof. Of course that is true for all schools. One last thing though that the regular schools taught me. That is part of life as a blind coder is finding ways to cope with problems that you run into. If you have things handed to you, you might not be as affective when you get out in the work world. Ken Ken -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bill Cox Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 12:03 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Searching for blind programmer to start a school for blind programmers This is still in the dumb-idea phase, and I don't have any funding lined up to get this started. That said... I have not been able to find any on-line school for teaching blind people to become professional programmers. I feel the world needs such an organization. I am not able to start such a school myself, but I would be interested in assisting social entrepreneurs in starting such a venture. I it would best be implemented as a for-profit social entrepreneurial venture. You can read about social entrepreneurs here: http://www.ashoka.org/social_entrepreneur http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_entrepreneurship I'm thinking it could be a Low Profit Corporation (LPC) founded to run the school for a profit. Everyone hired in teaching or management would be vision impaired or blind. Students would attend classes on-line, and could be anywhere in the world. Classes would not be free (maybe $1,000 per 1-semester course?). Students who are too poor to pay would be expected to do well in their courses and make up their fees by assisting teaching of those courses in later semesters. They might also be required to work for an associated consulting company to earn tuition. Students would be encouraged to help mentor each other in any case. Associated with the school could be a software consulting services company. The company would only hire vision impaired programmers, and students wanting to work for the company could take classes designed to train them in the skills they'll need. The company might encourage it's employees to spend one day a week on FOSS projects of their interest, which hopefully would include improving accessibility. Rough numbers to back up the idea: There are around 15 million people with "severe" vision impairments in the US. Roughly half of those people are too old. Half of the rest may have other impairments that would prevent them from becoming programmers. In the general population, there are 1 programmer out of every 500 people in the US. I would expect a ratio at least that high among the blind, or about 7,500 professional programmers in the US alone. If we took 20 years to train that many, it'd be 375 new students per year, and assuming a two year program, we'd have 750 students. If only half paid the class fees, but took three classes at a time (a full load), that'd be $3,000*750*2 = $4.5 million per year. My kids go to a school which happens to have about 750 students and a budget of just over $4 million per year, and that includes paying for a school. So, that math seems to work out, but we're not talking about anyone making a billion dollars in this effort. This is not a VC-fundable idea, but it might attract funding from groups that invest in socially beneficial startups. I know a couple of good candidates to start this school, and one might be interested in actually doing it. Are there any good blind or vision impaired people you guys could recommend for me to talk to? I think the key would be finding the right couple of guys. 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