Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired Coders?

  • From: Chris Hofstader <cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 13:03:18 -0400

I have the same or a very similar microwave oven and, at around $50 for a fully 
accessible appliance, I'm pretty darned pleased with it.

As far as I know, most embedded systems work is still done in C and, 
occasionally, a peculiar assembly language specific to some microprocessor used 
on the device. 

My first programs, written as a hobbyist for fun when I was 11 years old, was 
done all in PDP8 assembly language. It was the only language I knew as I had a 
book about it and didn't know other languages existed as I had no books about 
them. I really love the purity of assembly hacking and feel sad as, with each 
passing year, it fades off into obscurity. The little super cheap processors in 
a microwave oven or television remote may still require some tweaking in 
assembly and that makes me smile.

cdh
On Oct 13, 2010, at 12:13 PM, Alex Midence wrote:

> I like the speech only ui concept.  I have a microwave  at home that
> talks.  It's a mainstream gadget we got for like a hudnred and fifty
> bucks or somehting like that.  It  was not designed for blind people
> specifically.  You have a dial that you turn and it speaks presets for
> Pizza, soup, TV Dinner, popcorn and the like with button in the middle
> that adds thirty seconds to whatever time it's set for.  Along the
> right, there is a column of small round buttons that each represent a
> minute starting at the top from 1 to 5.  Somebody had to code the
> embedded system That runs it.  The idea of coding such a thing is
> intriguing to me.  What would you use?  C?  ASM?  Could you use c++
> for it?
> 
> On the topic of a GUI, what if you allowed the end user total control
> over the look of your app.  You could have a dialog that they could
> use to modify the color of the foreground, background and which icons
> to use for certain things.  I believe windows has a standard set of
> icons that come up for  certain buttons and controls.  You could hire
> someone to create and save settings packages that you could offer as a
> list of predone ui customizations and also offer the user the ability
> to create their own.  Kind of like what firefox does with themes.
> Just make your app fully customizable by the end user and the burden
> for making a visually appealing ui no longer falls on your shoulders.
> You take care of making sure the app does what it's supposed to do and
> let the user decorate it themselves.
> 
> Thoughts?
> Alex M
> 
> On 10/13/10, DaShiell, Jude T.  CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26
> <jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> That or give the project to the assistant to do and go on with other
>> things.  Even if an assistant is hired, if they don't know the
>> programming graphical user interface standards of your employer, you
>> could be out of work real fast and for good cause.
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Client
>> Services
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 11:47
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired
>> Coders?
>> 
>> Hi-
>> 
>> I am very fascinated by this conversation.  In my opinion, GUIs can be
>> handled by blind people with a human assistant giving feedback on look
>> and layout.  So, don't turn away the project, hire an assistant.
>> 
>> I have found that it is hard for me to conceptualize a look and layout.
>> But if somebody tells me exactly how they want something designed, it is
>> rather straight forward.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> H.R. Soltani
>> 
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kerneels
>> Roos
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 11:08 AM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired Coders?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This message was posted to a reply on the long thread about Oracle
>> accessibility concerns involving Java. I thought I'd post it again with
>> a new subject, since it deviates from the original topic.
>> 
>> 
>> I can't agree more your this statement Jay. As much as all of us want
>> to create nice GUIs, it is really such such a battel for someone that
>> can't see properly, if you are honest with yourself. I would say that
>> the FB examples are indicative of this, since the FB concept is very
>> simple yet for a visually impaired person to build a GUI  is a massive
>> task in all fairness.
>> 
>> I didn't  catch the whole story with the recent critisism of the FB
>> examples, but I can understand why a professor for example would
>> ridicule having the logic and presentation code (GUI code) all in one
>> file. (or any other aspect of the FB stuff that servce the purpose of
>> aiding blind people) It's a poor design choice for anything but an
>> example, but then, that's exactly what the FB examples are -- tools to
>> show you simple GUI creation in various programming languages.
>> Personally I think it's great and I commend all the contributors. It's a
>> service to the community, but sighted people will struggle to see it's
>> worth.
>> 
>> We must understand, for a fully sighted person, building GUIs is
>> rediculously easy and straight forward. No matter what kind of
>> accessible GUI designer tools there might be in future, the playing
>> field will never be level when it comes to anything graphic. Yet there
>> is no reason for despair, since there are numerous other areas in
>> computer sciense and programming in particular where a blind person
>> could compete well and I'm speculating that there might even be areas
>> where having no or little sight might aid you!
>> 
>> One particular small project I worked on while studying at university
>> springs to mind. It was a little applet developed with AWT or Swing that
>> saved your bookmarks in a tree structure. The professor was a gracious
>> man, and he gave us a nice score for the project, but he stepped in
>> after we did our presentation and basically told the  class that we
>> really did spend much time on this and that we didn't just download it
>> from the net or something... He did this, I think, because our project
>> was fairly inferiour graphic wise compaired to the elaborate graphics
>> the other student's projects sported even though I spent hours and hours
>> on the little GUI side of the software.
>> 
>> It's heart breaking for me when I read how hard blind folks try and make
>> appealing graphical interfaces, or when I read about the struggles some
>> software causes blind guys. It's commendable to see how people cope with
>> the worst of situations, but there are also better areas to focus on,,
>> areas where you'll be far more productive and make a better impact .
>> 
>> It's a complex topic for me and there are much to say about it. What I'm
>> wondering is if it is not a good time to review the way disabled people
>> are trained up to believe that interaction with computers should
>> commence in the generally accepted form of having a "normal" or sighted
>> OS with all highly graphical applications with a rediculously advanced
>> and complex and expensive screen reader stuck on top of it all.
>> 
>> And then, on the other hand, how we can identify better software
>> development areas to focus on where blindness poses less of an obsticle.
>> Also, how we can advance in those areas and properly promote ourselves
>> and our value to a software development shop developing for the general
>> public or business where accessibility is of little concern. Myself for
>> one have a little bit of a complex when think of all my years experience
>> as a software developer and yet the difficulty with which I'm faced with
>> when having to develop a GUI, and how someone with far less experience
>> than myself could code a GUI so much faster and better looking in less
>> time and with less effort.
>> 
>> My challenge to the list; let's draw up a specification of areas in
>> programming and computer science where visually impaired people can
>> excell at in the modern age where graphics does play such a ever
>> increasingly important part.
>> 
>> Armed with such a specification we'll be in the right position to start
>> and focus efforts on training ourselves up in those areas and then
>> sharing knowledge and awareness so that a wel trained blind programmer
>> (in the identified fields) could approach any development house with
>> confidence of his / her abilities and value she / he will add to a
>> company.
>> 
>> Kerneels
>> 
>> On 10/13/2010 12:31 AM, Jay Macarty wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I would advise spending time on web development with java on the server
>> side. Either that or headless java development such as web services.
>> Both directions can allow a person to grow into a very strong java
>> developer with very marketable skill sets without fighting the constant
>> battle of either swing accessibility or trying to gain skills in an API,
>> swt, which may have somewhat limited acceptence in a large traditional
>> java shop. Personally, I love swt; however, as a tech lead, I can't push
>> it into a project here because it is not an accepted technology by our
>> enterprise architects.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Homme, James"
>> <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 7:02 AM
>> Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration, IMHO
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Jay,
>> Would you advise someone new to Java to spend more time on Swing, SWT,
>> or web?
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> Jim Homme,
>> Usability Services,
>> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
>> Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility
>> here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jay Macarty
>> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 3:31 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration, IMHO
>> 
>> Over the past couple of years, I have been involved in hiring java
>> developers several times. One of the things we have had trouble with is
>> finding people with swing experience. It seems that, while there are
>> certainly a number of applications still using swing heavily, a lot of
>> java
>> development is moving away from swing based GUI interfaces to using web
>> based front-ends. Perhaps, Oracle thinks that a declining interest in
>> using
>> swing as a UI means they don't need to spend as much effort on swing
>> accessibility but that thought path can certainly leave those of us who
>> still need access to heavily swing based apps in a spot.
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Stanzel, Susan - Kansas City, MO" <susan.stanzel@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> <mailto:susan.stanzel@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 8:11 PM
>> Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration, IMHO
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Listers,
>> 
>> I have not stepped into this until now. I would hope that needing
>> government
>> contracts in the United States would have some affect on all this. I
>> have
>> asked people about swing and I am told it isn't used very much because
>> there
>> is newer technology out there. I am not an experienced Java programmer
>> so
>> maybe the rest of you will know more than I do. I know we use Struts at
>> my
>> building for creation of web projects. If I have just made a fool of
>> myself,
>> it's not the first time and won't be the last. (grin).
>> 
>> Susie Stanzel
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of The Elf
>> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 7:08 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration, IMHO
>> 
>> hey, this is my usual line, "beat them into submission" lol
>> 
>> or hound,or pummel,  or...
>> 
>> elf
>> Moderator, Blind Access Help
>> Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises
>> Specialists in customized computers and peripherals
>> - own the might and majesty of a Alacorn!
>> www.alacorncomputer.com
>> proprietor, The Grab Bag,
>> for blind computer users and programmers
>> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 10:14 AM
>> Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration, IMHO
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Wow, it only took like 15 emails on the subject, but finally the voice
>> of
>> reason has made itself known.
>> 
>> Ken, I completely agree. Now is the time to pressure them into actually
>> not abandoning it.
>> 
>> Take care,
>> Sina
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> 
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
>> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 1:10 AM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration, IMHO
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If this is true then it's not time to tell people to stay away.  It's
>> time
>> to get people to get active and start emailing and
>> calling them till they do support it.  If we stay away we lose what
>> accessibility was there.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Ken
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Storm Dragon
>> 
>> Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 11:09 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration, IMHO
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> I would not doubt it for one second. They dropped the ball on Linux
>> accessibility pretty much first thing when they took over Sun.
>> It's probably a good idea, if you have influence over software
>> decisions,
>> to encourage companies, clients, and friends to stay far
>> far away from Oracle and their software. I was even going to get rid of
>> Open Office but fortunately the version used in Ubuntu is a
>> fork so not subject to them. unless, that is, they somehow manage to win
>> 
>> their evil attack on Google. If that happens, who knows who
>> they will attack next. Keep your fingers crossed, and maybe the open
>> source community will keep the Bridge going, Orca is still
>> alive and well after all.
>> Storm
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> 
>> Registered Linux user number 508465:
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> My blog, Thoughts of a Dragon:
>> http://www.stormdragon.us/
>> Get yourself a Frostbox:
>> http://www.frostbitesystems.com/
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, 2010-10-09 at 08:15 +0530, prateek aggarwal wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> oh know,
>> i wish its just a rumor.
>> if its ever going to be true, i'll be so said.
>> 
>> regards,
>> prateek agarwal.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/9/10, Jamal Mazrui <empower@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:empower@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I heard from a good source today that Oracle has decided to discontinue
>> support for the Java Access Bridge (and no alternative is planned).  I
>> would be glad to be convinced otherwise.  If anyone has information
>> regarding this topic, please share.
>> 
>> Jamal
>> 
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>> 
>> 
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>> 
>> 
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>> 
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>> 
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>> 
>> 
>> This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and are intended
>> solely for use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
>> If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender
>> immediately and then delete it.  If you are not the intended recipient,
>> you must not keep, use, disclose, copy or distribute this e-mail without
>> the author's prior permission.  The views expressed in this e-mail
>> message do not necessarily represent the views of Highmark Inc., its
>> subsidiaries, or affiliates.
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>> 
>> 
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Kerneels Roos
>> Cell: +27 (0)82 309 1998
>> Skype: cornelis.roos
>> 
>> "Common Sense" is not "Common Practice" .
>> 
>> "The Strawberry Jam Law:
>>  The wider you spread it, the thinner it gets..."
>>   -- from the Java Specialist Newsletter, from a book on consulting.
>> 
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>> 
>> 
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at 
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> 

__________
View the list's information and change your settings at
//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind

Other related posts:

  1. Home
  2. programmingblind
  3. Archive
  4. 10-2010