[lit-ideas] Re: faith
- From: Paul Stone <pas@xxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 20:51:06 -0400
At 08:17 PM 5/17/2005, you wrote:
>Here is small sampling, Paul:
It might surprise you that I actually think "The Bible" is a cool piece of=
=20
work -- and I HAVE read it, more than once. I also believe that there WAS a=
=20
dude named Jesus who was like, really charismatic. I can't swallow the=20
stories whole though. It's just all too unbelievable. So I don't believe in=
=20
Christianity. It's a useful mythology. It encompasses almost all possible=20
human endeavours. It's a supreme work of philosophy and a great moral code,=
=20
but it's not TRUE!!!
>Bible: has more manuscript proofs than any other 10 pieces of
>classical literature combined. Example: there are over 24,000
>manuscript copies of the New Testament in existence today, with the
>oldest manuscript dated at 125 years after the original autograph.
So a LOT of people wrote out a really good book. That proves NOTHING.
>That might seem like a long time, but by comparison, Homer's Iliad is
>a distant second with a mere 643 manuscript copies, and with the
>oldest copy dated at 500 years after the original. The Iliad
>contains about 15,600 lines of which 764 lines are in doubt. This
>means the Iliad manuscripts contain five percent textual corruption
>or uncertainty.
That's still pretty good. Plus, it's in Greek. Just ask Erin how much those=
=20
guys improvised.
>By contrast, the New Testament contains 20,000 lines with only 40 lines,=
=20
>or 400 words in doubt, which figures to 99.5
>percent textual certainty, or only one-half of one percent of words=20
>containing variants. [Note: None of the disputed passages in the New
>Testament represent a challenge to any Christian doctrine or moral=20
>precept, with most of the variants being attributed to errors in
>spelling or slight differences of style.]
What about the OLD testament?
>Also, the fulfilled prophecy: Some time before 500 B. C. the prophet=20
>Daniel proclaimed
>that Israel's long-awaited Messiah would begin his public ministry
>483 years after the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild
>Jerusalem; Some 400 years before crucifixion was invented,
If they MENTIONED it, then it was invented. Just because it wasn't DONE=20
yet, doesn't enter into it.
>both Israel's King David and the prophet Zechariah described the Messiah's
>death in words that perfectly depict that mode of execution.
Self-fulfilling prophecy?
>Further, they said that the body would be pierced and that none of the=
bones
>would be broken, contrary to customary procedure in cases of
>crucifixion;
Again, they were following the text.
>The prophet Isaiah foretold that a conqueror named Cyrus would destroy=20
>seemingly impregnable Babylon and subdue Egypt
>along with most of the rest of the known world. This same man,=20
>said Isaiah, would decide to let the Jewish exiles in his territory go
>free without any payment of ransom. Isaiah made this prophecy l50 years=20
>before Cyrus was born, 180 years before Cyrus performed any of
>these feats (and he did, eventually, perform them all), and 80 years=20
>before the Jews were taken into exile.
To quote a really old song "do you believe in MAGIC?"
>Resurrection, historical facts:
>Jesus died by crucifixion
>Was buried
>His death caused his disciples to despair
>The tomb which he was buried was found to be empty
>The disciples had experience of the literal risen Jesus
>The disciples were transformed from doubters to bold proclaimers to
>his Gospel
>This message was the center of preaching in the early church
>And especially proclaimed in Jerusalem
>The church was born and grew from this preaching
>Sunday as the primary day of worship
>James who was a skeptic was converted to the faith
>Paul was converted by an experience with the risen Jesus
>For the New Testament, Dr. Gary Habermas points out that within 110
>years of Christ's crucifixion, approximately eighteen non-Christian
>sources mention more than "one hundred facts, beliefs, and teachings
>from the life of Christ and early Christendom. These items, I might
>add, mention almost every major detail of Jesus' life, including
>miracles, the Resurrection, and His claims to deity." Sir William
>Ramsey, one of the greatest archeologists to ever live, demonstrated
>that Luke made no mistakes in references to 32 countries, 54 cities,
>and 9 islands.
You know what? I don't even believe that mankind has been to the moon.=20
Maybe that's enough to make everyone else think _I'M_ nuts!
>Biblical Historicity:
> From G-d To Us - William Nix, Norm Geisler
>The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable? - F.F. Bruce
Why do you concentrate so on the NEW testament? The facts of Jesus are=20
WAYYYYY less interesting than the proof for God and all his really cool=20
things that he did in the first book. I'm interested in God. I have no=20
interest whatsoever in stories about religious prophets who tell completely=
=20
different stories. There CANNOT be 10 different geneses.
>Is The Bible True? - Jeff Sheler
I'm interested in reading this one.
>The Historical Reliability of the Gospels - Craig Blomberg
>
>Jesus:
>The Historical Jesus - Gary Habermas
>Gary Habermas and Antony Flew - Did Jesus Rise From the Dead?
>Jesus' Resurrection - William Lane Craig
>Jesus According To Scripture =AD Darrell Bock
>Who Was Jesus? - N.T. Wright
I will read some of this stuff. I fear (well, not FEAR, but regret in=20
advance) that I won't be converted.
p=20
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