On the other hand, I should mention, when my older daughter was in 6th grade she knew what a "blow job" was and had girl "friends" who talked to her about it. My jaw was on my chest for hours. Julie Krueger ========Original Message======== Subj: [lit-ideas] Re: Why am I not surprised? Date: 10/6/2006 2:48:43 P.M. Central Standard Time From: _JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxxx (mailto:JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx) To: _lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) Sent on: I ran into the word "masturbation" sometime in high school, quite possibly reading Ellison's Invisible Man. I had to look in the dictionary. I was somewhat disconcerted. I remember reading Catcher in the Rye and asking my Mother what a hermaphrodite was. She nearly fainted. At 13 my daughter calls penises "manparts" and vaginas "girl parts". She finds the anatomically correct words to be "freeky" and "gross". When will America grow up? Julie Krueger ========Original Message======== Subj: [lit-ideas] Re: Why am I not surprised? Date: 10/6/2006 2:23:51 P.M. Central Standard Time From: _atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) To: _lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) Sent on: JK: >> God punished Onan because he failed to honour his cultural familial >> responsibility out of jealousy and resentment. << Yes, this is what I was taught by the priests. Onanism is synonymous with coitus-interruptus, not jacking off. He was smote dead on the spot by God not for spilling his seed but for breaking the traditional cultural practice. God is very conservative when it comes to Tradition. But the Catholic Church says that Onan's sin was in practicing contraceptive sex -- to hell with Jewish tradition. No pleasure outside procreation. It's the law. Natural Law, that is. And don't you dare try to remember those night emission dreams either. And what's with all this use of the word "masturbation"? I was thirty-two before I heard the word 'masturbation'. It's a dirty word. I prefer 'self-abuse' or 'impure with myself'. But not masturbation -- it reminds me of that song from Hair: "Sodomy, Fellatio, Cunnilingus, Pederasty Father, why do these words sound so nasty? Masturbation Can be fun Join the holy orgy Kama Sutra Everyone!" Disgusting. Mark Twain had this to say about self-abuse: "Caesar, in his Commentaries, says, "To the lonely it is company; to the forsaken it is a friend; to the aged and to the impotent it is a benefactor. They that are penniless are yet rich, in that they still have this majestic diversion." In another place this experienced observer has said, "There are times when I prefer it to sodomy." Robinson Crusoe says, "I cannot describe what I owe to this gentle art." Queen Elizabeth said, "It is the bulwark of virginity." Mike Geary Memphis ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html