Robert: A is not made into a different sentence simply by putting quotes around it; for what you've put quotes around is just A. My interest is this was triggered by an assertion Andreas made about people who know false things. I know the sophism demonstrates that if somebody understands what knowing really is, they also know that what is known is true. In order to know whether A is true or false, I have to know whether A is true or false. Or do I? Does Epimenides? Best to all, some yahoo trying to learn by making false statements ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html