Iraq has become a training ground for Islamist terrorists because they (unlike media lulled Americans) realize how important Iraq is. They are pulling out all the stops in an attempt to get us to pull out prematurely so they can defeat the democratically elected government over there. There are more people who don't wish us to be conquered by the Islamists than you imagine, Mike. The bulk of the Iraqis don't wish to be thus conquered and even such fellow-traveling nations as France seem to be falling out of love with the Islamists. American and Western leftists haven't given up on them yet because "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," but I've read what the Islamists believe and don't believe that marriage can last either. Lawrence _____ From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Geary Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 6:24 PM To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Text of bin Laden Tape Welcome back to the fray, Lawrence. I was hoping you'd reappear someday. I've missed you, man. I think you must be the last living supporter of this war. "The war against Iraq has been a tremendous success in the war against the Islamists." Amen. We've turned all that around. Sure those slippery devils sometimes sneak into the Green Zone to blow people up, but that's fairly rare. The Green Zone is clearly under our control. We've introduced the ultimate Gated Community into a foreign culture -- they've got to be impressed with our way of life. Go America!! But, you know, Lawrence, even your Stasi hero Bush has admitted that Iraq has become a training ground for terrorists. Hmmm. Oh, but wait, you said the war against the Islamists, not the terrorists. I stand corrected. Mike Geary Memphis ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence <mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Helm To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 7:13 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Text of bin Laden Tape Thanks: It shouldn't be beyond you that I support this present war or compare it to WWII, but I know where you get your info so I'm not surprised that it is. In WWII we were attacked by adherents of fascist philosophies who hoped to conquer us. On 9/11 we were attacked by adherents of a fascist ideology who hoped to conquer us. (And that wasn't the first attack or the first declaration of war against us by adherents of this ideology.) Information about the Fascist regimes of WWII was readily available to the curious. Information about Islamist Fascist regimes and strategies is also available to the curious. Since I am not a pacifist I do not wish to be conquered by the Islamists. I don't even want our nation to be attacked by them. Furthermore, since I have been curious about the players I have spent a lot of time checking them out. Iraq was an enormous impediment in the way of our war against the Islamists. The war against Iraq has been a tremendous success in the war against the Islamists. You of course won't have heard that yet, but you will. Of course the Islamists are slippery devils ready to pull the wool over the eyes of the unwary. See Andre Nusse's Muslim Palestine as an example of how they operate. The Islamists don't fit the Western preconception of Nation States. Sayyid Qutb didn't believe in the separation of the ummah into nations. This information is available to the curious and energetic. Thus, since the Islamists have declared war against us, we who aren't pacifists, seek to oppose them. The Middle East, thanks to WWI and especially the British and French is messy. They split the Middle East up in awkward national groupings. The Islamists want to do away with all borders although as Nusse indicates, local Islamist groups can support political factions that provide them with some advantage. They can never settle for such agreements as ultimate solutions, but they can agree to them keeping the word "temporary" in the forefront of their thinking. Islamists function in and have agreements with factions and regimes throughout the Middle East and in all Islamic nations. Fighting them is going to be difficult. It is going to require imagination. Alas, we shall probably get very very bloody before we (as a nation) acquire any. Lawrence _____ From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andy Amago Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 3:35 PM To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Text of bin Laden Tape Lawrence, welcome back! Glad to see that you're still supporting this war. How you can compare this war to WWII is beyond me, but welcome back anyway. It's good to see your post.