I'd like to second John here. Personally I think 'freedom' is trumped every time by a need for human decency. Here's single mother with a sick child and no health insurance. She's living in the richest country in the world and she can't get access to healthcare for her child. Does anyone think she'd give a stuff for any notion of freedom. And yet higher up the tree we have somebody resisting moves to socialised healthcare because the notion invades their sense of freedom. Isn't that just plain selfish? And of course any system can be abused, but that doesn't mean that the system itself should be written off. Upwards of 16,000 people died at Bhopal but it didn't spell the end of capitalism, let alone the company that was responsible. Simon