[lit-ideas] Re: Beyond Belief
- From: Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:53:22 EDT
R. Paul aptly quotes from that treatise seldom quoted today, "De Carne
Christi" -- of Christ's Flesh -- by Tertulian(us), -- Bk. 5:
'natus est Dei filius:
non pudet quia pudendum est;
et mortuus est Dei filius:
prorsus credibile est, quia ineptum est;
et sepultus resurrexit:
certum est, quia impossibile.'
R. Paul comments:
>'Certum est, quia impossibile est' is often extracted
>and misquoted as 'Credo quia
>impossibile.'
Interesting. I have seen it (mis)quoted as "credo quia _absurdum_ (est)",
which is (oh so much) weaker than "impossibile" -- and even than
'inconceivable'), so I was glad to learn that Tertulian used the strongest of
the
adjectives here: "impossible" -- by which I submit he meant the _metaphysical_
impossible. (I always thought that 'absurdum' was too subjective a quality to
refer
to these deep theological matters -- seeing that religious myth, as McCreery
and Geary have commented, _deal with_ and _dwell on_ absurdities (most of the
time).
But back to Tertulian's text --:
'Natus est Dei Filius:
non pudet quia pudendum est;
et mortuus est Dei Filius:
prorsus credibile est, quia ineptum est;
et sepultus resurrexit:
certum est, quia impossibile.'
A quick reference to
_http://www.translation-guide.com/free_online_translators.php?from=Latin&to=En
glish_
(http://www.translation-guide.com/free_online_translators.php?from=Latin&to=English)
provides this rather poor English translation
'Natus is God's Son:
not it shames because shameful is;
and dead is God's Son:
forward credible is, because to play the fool is;
and burial f: undoubted is, because impossible.'
My attempt:
born is the son of God:
It does not shame (me) [at all] because it _is_ [so] shameful
[anything connected to _birth_ and _pudenda_ was shameful
to the fathers of the church].
But now dead is the son of God:
This _is_ credible; because it is (so) _inept_ [a proposition].
And later, well buried in the grave, he did resurrect:
This is _certain_, because it is (so) impossible.
Note that Tertulian uses 'pudendum'. I append below the plural, 'pudenda',
from the OED.
Note that Tertulian's passage is then not a 'credo' as it is often misquoted
as. Rather, it provides a statement of 'certainty' ('this is certain'). This
was written before Descartes, so Tertulian possibly could not distinguish or
conceive a distinction between _subjective_ certainty and _objective_
certainty. Since Descartes, it is accepted that something can be
_subjectively_
certain _yet_ false -- and so Tertulian's dictum, "It is certain _and_
impossible" looks less contradictory than it _sounds_.
The ultimate motivation (in Tertulian) is very Protestant: people should
believe what the Dogma says _without_ trying to _rationalise_ it. And
sometimes,
the very fact that something _sounds_ as an impossible thing to have
happened, should be held as _certain_ for that very reason. Beyond belief,
indeed.
Cheers,
JL
----
"pudendum". Usually in pl. pudenda. [L., neuter gerundive of <NOBR> to cause
shame, ashame, lit. â??that of which one ought to be ashamedâ??, used as n.,
commonly in pl.]. The privy parts; the external genital organs, esp. those of
a
woman.
1398 TREVISA Barth. De P.R. V. xlviii. (Bodl. MS.),
Also for schame ese partyes hatte pudenda e schamelich parties.
1634 SIR T. HERBERT Trav. 15
She [Hottentot] will immediately pull by her flap, and discouer her pudenda.
1748 HARTLEY Observ. Man I. iv. 449
The original Sources of the Shame relating to the Pudenda are probably the
Privacy requisite [etc.].
1841 RAMSBOTHAM Obstetr. Med. (1855) 33
These parts, closing and surrounding the genital fissure, altogether
constitute the pudendum.
1893 T. M. MADDEN Clin. Gynæcol. v. 59
The value [for pruritus] of a solution of cocaine freely brushed over the
pudendum..is unquestionable.
1922 A. G. MAGIAN Sex Probl. Women ii. 31
The Vulva, or Pudendum, The Vulv(1) The labia majora and minora bounding
the pudendal cleft. (2) The mons veneris. (3) The vestibule, [etc.].
1977 E. J. TRIMMER et al. Visual Dict. Sex (1978) v. 58 Sanskrit manuscripts
show Indian women with shaved pudenda.
1984 SMITH A Tri-Dimensional Chart of the Pudenda.
b. fig.
1938 S. Beckett Murphy 47
Here are the pudenda of my psyche.
(http://0-dictionary.oed.com.csulib.ctstateu.edu/cgi/entry_main/00191924?query_type=misspelling&queryword=pudenda&edition=2e&first=1&max_to_show=10&single=
1&sort_type=alpha&control_no=null&case_id=qtft-fqFW97-3341&p=0&sp=1&qt=1&ct=0&
ad=0&d=1-D#top)
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